Google would be smart to acquire Glide ( https://www.glideapps.com/ )
Founder of Glide here! Thank you for the vote of confidence :)
We’re quite excited to see the no-code space heat up with Amazon joining the fray.
Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
151–160 of 331 posts
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#152I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful software is that you have to understand a business process and its requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do. I work with business stakeholders creating internal…
The main advantage of "coding without code" that I could see is not dealing with the server and software configuration issues that come up when you code. This can range anywhere from:
- Updating the server the software's hosted on - Dealing with system errors installing software - Setting up software on your company's webserver (and dealing with firewalls) - Installing necessary plugins which may require installing new software that's not compatible with your version of Linux, etc. - The fact that a lot of web software is designed for a Linux environment and can be completely foreign for someone with a Windows background - Updating the software you're coding on
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're right about perceived barriers to entry, and I certainly didn't say (nor did I mean to imply) that anyone should "just" learn to code. But I think the promise of "apps without code" is a siren song, always ending in frustration. I'd never tell anyone that learning to code is easy (only that most people can do it with some hard work), but I would also never tell anyone that tools like this will make it…
Two things to add: 1) Agreed. Writing the code is the easy part. Determining and defining what to build? That's the magic. 2) In the wrong hands, making things too easy can be detrimental. First, there's add too much, simply because you can. For instance, WordPress n00bs are notorious for adding too many plugins. Why? Because they can. The second reason is, changing too soon without enough data, without enough user i…
To add to that - Determining and defining what to build is not magic unless you write simple and elegant code that delivers on-time and on-budget.
You can have all the magic in the world upfront with planning and have it fail spectacularly without the right execution that is accurate, on-time and on-budget.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#154I see two+ entwined fundamental problems here:
1. Amazon isn't especially known for high quality software. I picture lots of weird corner cases that won't be tested or fixed in their frantic pursuit of new features (which is what's rewarded, like Google if not more so).
2. Sky high Amazon attrition - especially in engineering!* - means that it's always newbies who'll be working on it, under high pressure.
I have trouble imagining a non-trivial corporate app with any kind of lifespan living on this thing.
*I live in Seattle so any Bezbots can save themselves the denial of harsh reality.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are radically underestimating the perceived barriers to entry with programming. You sound a lot like the Linux advocates who think everyone should just memorize a bunch of commands, and get used to using shell. This type of insider view is often referred to as 'the curse of knowledge'.
I think you're right about perceived barriers to entry, and I certainly didn't say (nor did I mean to imply) that anyone should "just" learn to code. But I think the promise of "apps without code" is a siren song, always ending in frustration. I'd never tell anyone that learning to code is easy (only that most people can do it with some hard work), but I would also never tell anyone that tools like this will make it…
My counterpoint (to your original point) is that it's not about writing code.
Making an app like this and putting it online (with roughly the same level of features) requires:
* Learning a backend language, like Python * Learning how to design a data model * Learning how to design an admin interface * Managing authentication, security, and performance * Learning HTML, CSS, and Javascript * Learning how to set up a uwsgi server * Learning how to set up an nginx server * Learning how to set up an AWS VM and deploy the above to it * Learning how to use a VCS
I'm an experienced programmer and sysadmin who has done all of those things and more over the last 20 years, and I still can't imagine going to the trouble of actually doing all of that if I can just log into HoneyComb and make everything nice and quick and just get it done.
There's value in learning how to do it, but there's also value in spending your time somewhere else. If you're making a simple CRUD app, bashing it together with Django and deploying it to an EC2 VM is almost definitely not your differentiated value proposition. If it's just a throwaway app to handle some mundane task, then it's definitely not wort hthe time it takes to make it if you don't have to.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#156I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful software is that you have to understand a business process and its requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do. I work with business stakeholders creating internal…
The main advantage of "coding without code" that I could see is not dealing with the server and software configuration issues that come up when you code. This can range anywhere from: - Updating the server the software's hosted on - Dealing with system errors installing software - Setting up software on your company's webserver (and dealing with firewalls) - Installing necessary plugins which may require installing n…
Although you shed some of this type of maintenance overhead, you are still taking on the burden of maintaining business logic.
The difference is that now, you lack the vast and mature test automation ecosystem to help manage that cost, and more importantly, the friction of shipping changes is completely gone.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#157Co-Founder of https://www.cloudternal.com. I'm really surprised they have a limit of 100k records on their tables. They will have the same issue that Airtable has, it's just not suited for enterprise.
We believe there is still a gap in the "database app for non-technical users" space, so we created one that can handle millions of records, provides granular permissions down to the cell level and targets those creative (yet non-developer) users who end up pushing Excel beyond its usefulness.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#158Looks like a competitor to Retool, interesting. The focus on data permissions, mobile support, and push notifications is really interesting because none of those features are ones that Retool focuses on, I believe - those features being front and center makes me think Amazon has looked at the competition and wants to focus on what they offer that others don't, rather than just trying to be yet-another-tool in the spa…
>On the other hand, I absolutely loathe every single UI that has ever come out of AWS, and there is absolutely no chance I give the editor they've built here a shot without hearing lots of positive reactions first. I agree so much with this. I hate the AWS console UI so, so much and It blows my mind that such a large company can't seem to even get on the same page about what color scheme or menu bar position they wan…
Can someone smarter than me explain why the AWS UI is so off-putting? I also find myself just put off by AWS UIs.
I can't even figure out why I hate it so much. Looking at the screenshots though immediately filled me with the sense that this thing would just be awful to use. When I go back to the screenshots to try to find objective things I dislike about the UI, I can't really find anything. It seems to do the stuff a UI needs to do.
Maybe it's just a negative association with the look & feel of AWS UI, because most of the time when I'm interacting with AWS I'm trying to get a service I haven't used before up and running. Going back and forth between dense documentation and the UI, clicking and failing, and staring at a spinner spin for far too long.
Perhaps all those hours spent fighting with other pages that look so similar to this one has given me a subconscious dislike for all AWS UIs.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#159The comments here strengthen exactly what I was thinking - this is yet another flavor of low-code app development. I see similarities to Salesforce, SharePoint, Lotus Notes, Airtable, and all the other startups on this path that don't seem to realize that they are re-inventing modern versions of products that have been around since the 80s.
I spent years in my early career doing Lotus Notes Dev, then shutting down all those apps to go to Sharepoint, then shutting all those down to go to Salesforce. I walked away from that churn about a decade ago to just do SaaS, so I can't truly speak to which of the newcomers has the most promise. But I have yet to see someone take on this market with full knowledge of what came before. I see potential for someone to really learn the in and outs of all such products over the last 30+ years, talk to the folks who have re-done their LOB apps in multiple products over that time, figure out what worked and build a true "best-of-breed" solution.
When someone does do that, I'm all in. Until then... the legacy apps I mentioned above are past their time, so pick your favorite flavor from all the new ones.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#160I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful software is that you have to understand a business process and its requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do. I work with business stakeholders creating internal…
Yes, precisely this. It seems abstracting applications at that high level will inevitably bake in the business process which is very different for each business unless the application isn't interesting or complex enough. I'm sure within a specific domain, a tool like this can be made (it's usually too costly), but at an abstract level to build any application is missing the real challenge that enterprise software has.