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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#151

Post by automated_toast »

nine_zeros wrote: post #56
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

> I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out. Factory workers in 80s and 90s said the same thing. All it did was price American factory workers out of the labor pool completely, moving jobs elsewhere. American greed and I-got-mine-fuck-you attitude is exactly why US will not remain a global su…

I don't want America to be a global superpower. Too expensive. I'd rather be a quiet, happy country that just takes care of its own and chillaxes.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#152

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

spaced-out wrote: post #120
xienze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wait until the same engineer can do the work for 1/3rd the cost from his own country, especially when everyone in the team is remote. It’s not quite as easy as it seems, believe me software companies have been trying to pull this off for decades. I’ve been around situations where a US team was offshored and returned again because the results were so dreadful. What people forget is that the folks who actually make i…

>It’s not quite as easy as it seems, believe me software companies have been trying to pull this off for decades. I’ve been around situations where a US team was offshored and returned again because the results were so dreadful >What people forget is that the folks who actually make it here are the absolute cream of the crop. You know a good way to reverse this trend, though? Force all those people to take all the sk…

What you're saying is certainly true, which is why people who already have a visa were exempted from the order. (Some may choose to leave because of the uncertainty, of course, but that would be true for any immigration reform.)

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#153

Post by automated_toast »

burlesona wrote: post #65
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

I can understand why you’d feel that was as an individual, but as an American, for my children’s sake, I want the top 5% of every economy to keep immigrating here. That gives the US an incredible advantage in terms of innovation and growth, and I believe that rising tide really does lift us all. There are structural inequality issues and problems with upward mobility in the US which we urgently need to work on, but t…

If the top 5% of everywhere else moves here, your children will end up in the bottom 5%.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#154

Post by vsskanth »

automated_toast wrote: post #146
guyzero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unbelievable how naked the anti-immigrant sentiment from you and numerous other commenters. I'm honestly shocked.

I am an immigrant. I came here because there was too much competition where I came from.

I am an H1B myself. Up-voted you because I appreciate the honesty.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#155

Post by jfim »

guyzero wrote: post #116
umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

Give me a break. There are still a huge number of white developers across tech companies of all sizes. Cries of anti-American discrimination at American companies are overblown.

This varies a lot from company to company, and even within companies.

Unless there's an effort that's made to ensure there's a more diverse representation, groups tend to hire people similar to themselves. Unchecked, that can lead to some teams all having the same national origin.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#156

Post by automated_toast »

blueblisters wrote: post #41
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

If your job can be done remotely, you will likely face more competition, not less. Restricting the H1-B will only lead to companies following the talent back to their countries with lower costs of living. Moreover, the current restriction has barely any bite. It only restricts workers who are not in the US from getting a visa until December 2020.

Then those countries will eventually get a higher cost of living, and live the good life. That's a good outcome as well.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#157

Post by sharadov »

gbronner wrote: post #5

H1B is terrible for the employees, and for those who work alongside them. Companies try to slow down green cards, and use H1Bs as virtual indentured servants. They also fake looking for Americans- in practice, many of the jobs are earmarked for a specific person, and you are wasting your time applying for it. Losing your job as an h1b requires you to leave almost immediately, which isn't great for anyone. Hopefully t…

This is a complex issue, and the only way to make it fair is no tie the immigration policy to a company but make it skill and points based as they have in Canada. Companies have found loopholes if not wholesale abused the system. The biggest offenders are the body shopping companies from India - Wipro, Infosys, TCS. Most American companies in my opinion are fair and for all the talk about indentured labor, there are plenty of tech jobs for the skilled and you can leave at will, the transfer process is simple, although the last year the Trump administration has put hurdles.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#158

Post by aspaceman »

throwawaygh wrote: post #67
btilly wrote: post #6

H1B visas provide employers every incentive to lie to import cheap talent and work them hard. There are ways to meet the very real need to import the best brains from around the world. But H1B isn't set up to do this very effectively. Off the top of my head, a better option would be to allow immigration with a $60k bond to the government that has to be paid down at $1k/month by the current employer. With the employee…

Really, we should just enforce the original intent of the H1B. 1. Companies that import labor when they had a perfectly acceptable local candidate should face severe fines, and Justice should be given a real budget for running these investigations as a matter of course. And the burden of proof to demonstrate you needed to import labor should be pretty high. If you don't do this, then H1B abuse will happen. 2. Compani…

Personally I disagree and think the notion that we have to give a job locally first is an empty political promise.

Like honestly don’t see the point. Just give the smart person a job.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#159

Post by automated_toast »

vsskanth wrote: post #139
ActsJuvenile wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes. AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries. Software Engineers have failed to unite…

Medical professions are physically constrained, easier to lobby and limit supply. Software development is not as physically constrained, any moves to restrict supply will automatically lead to offshoring similar to manufacturing. Licensing does not limit offshoring. Accounting is the best example of this. There are many licensed CFAs in India and Philippines doing outsourced accounting work.

That's fine. Then those countries do better, and the world becomes a better place.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#160

Post by HarryHirsch »

adrr wrote: post #121
btilly wrote: post #6

H1B visas provide employers every incentive to lie to import cheap talent and work them hard. There are ways to meet the very real need to import the best brains from around the world. But H1B isn't set up to do this very effectively. Off the top of my head, a better option would be to allow immigration with a $60k bond to the government that has to be paid down at $1k/month by the current employer. With the employee…

Why not just stack rank h1b applicants by salary instead of using a lottery system? That forces the income levels up which should benefit Americans workers as well.

If you did that you'd favour profitable industries (say computing) over areas with actual shortages (say Arabic translators in Detroit). You'd also make it impossible for areas with low cost of living (Detroit) to be allocated any H1B visa. It's one of those perennial proposals that always come up but are really poorly thought out when you look into it.
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