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Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

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Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#151
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the large scale, wealth reliably collects progressively higher percentages of return the higher the base capital.

The absolutely dismal performance of most hedge funds indicates otherwise. In fact, it's probably easier to generate alpha using small amounts of money. When you're managing billions and billions of dollars, you're severely constrained in the types of strategies you can actually run. This is why, for example, that RenTech's Medallion fund is capped at 10bn. Just by investing in an index fund, retail investors are get…

How does that bode for the vision fund? Doomed from the start?

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#152
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s not worth it tot hem it’s not worth it to us either then. The rules of ROI are the same for billionaire or for me.

A hedge fund needs to post good returns on the capital it has with the man power it has. They simply do not have enough resources to spend time on netting 100% returns on 50k investments. And they can't hire the problem away either, unless they pay each new employee less than 50k.

Yeah so it’s worth it for me if I pay myself less than 50k. So it’s not worth it.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly believe this, buy Facebook stock

Indeed and have. But I have a feeling that the returns that fb would make on their VC investments will be much higher than investment in their stock. There would of course be trickle down effect.

Wouldn't it make sense for them to expand the VC arm until the ROI becomes the same as other departments?

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They...bought Oculus. No?

Long time ago. Quest was developed way after that acquisition.

Facebook did the same thing they did with Instagram, they bought the company, kept it essentially independent with the founders continuing to run it as an independent management team. As with Instagram, Oculus is now big enough to actually matter to facebook, and so Mark proceeded to fuck with the successful management team until they quit. It's almost the perfect example of Facebook failing to innovate internally.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not worth it for them to spend $50k in someone’s salary getting them up to speed on the local culture of a place to discover a trade that might be worth 150k.

If it’s not worth it tot hem it’s not worth it to us either then. The rules of ROI are the same for billionaire or for me.

You’re not getting the math. It’s absolutely worth it for you to spend 2 months of your time to find something worth $150k.

A hedge fund, investing team, whatever you want to call it, has a limited capacity. They need to beat market returns on pool of money so large that spending 2 months to find a 300% return on something with a max investment of $75k is absolutely an incorrect use of time.

Read about opportunity cost to understand why there are many things “worth it” to people without access to something better.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#156
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Softbank is not a software company and probably isn't trying to copy and undercut your business in the future

Nah, they'll just fund your competitor as well, and pit you against each other to see who survives :).

Even if that happens, that's fine. Softbank has no incentive for your business to fail. The company that dies, is more money out of the visionfund.

On the other hand, FB does have an incentive. Sure, they lose that investment, but they gain their own internal company that they own 100% of which has eaten your marketshare.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#157
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolutely dismal performance of most hedge funds indicates otherwise. In fact, it's probably easier to generate alpha using small amounts of money. When you're managing billions and billions of dollars, you're severely constrained in the types of strategies you can actually run. This is why, for example, that RenTech's Medallion fund is capped at 10bn. Just by investing in an index fund, retail investors are get…

How does that bode for the vision fund? Doomed from the start?

I would say that the vision fund was predicated on a audacious idea that was either pure genius or absolutely idiotic. The idea is as follows, instead of investing our huge pile of money into a bunch of different companies, which takes a lot of legwork, let's just fund a relatively small amount and give them a bunch of money. We will give them so much money that it's not possible for them to do anything except totally crush the competition and control the entire market.

The problem with the idea, and the eventual reason it didn't work, was that though it was largest VC fund ever, 100bn isn't actually that much in the scheme of things. There's so much money sloshing around the system looking for the place where it will be treated best. So, in essence, what Softbank ended up doing was bidding up the price of the entire industry, creating massive inflation. If Softbank gives a shi-tton of money , and another VC gives a shit-ton to a competitor, they've both just wasted a shit-ton of money.

I actually don't think Masa is the compete idiotic everyone makes him out to be. He has a very high tolerance for risk, but that doesn't make him irrational. The Vision Fund might not be doing that well, but Softbank's stock is looking pretty good at the moment.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time ago. Quest was developed way after that acquisition.

Facebook did the same thing they did with Instagram, they bought the company, kept it essentially independent with the founders continuing to run it as an independent management team. As with Instagram, Oculus is now big enough to actually matter to facebook, and so Mark proceeded to fuck with the successful management team until they quit. It's almost the perfect example of Facebook failing to innovate internally.

Isn't Oculus doing better than ever? Citation for "Mark proceeded to fuck with the successful management team until they quit"? (genuine question)

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#159
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that bode for the vision fund? Doomed from the start?

I would say that the vision fund was predicated on a audacious idea that was either pure genius or absolutely idiotic. The idea is as follows, instead of investing our huge pile of money into a bunch of different companies, which takes a lot of legwork, let's just fund a relatively small amount and give them a bunch of money. We will give them so much money that it's not possible for them to do anything except totall…

He's the inventor of the danged electronic dictionary man.

Re: Facebook establishing a venture arm to invest in startups

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delaware companies do. See, e.g., Frederick Hsu Living Tr. v. ODN Hldg. Corp., 2017 WL 1437308, at *18 (Del. Ch. Apr. 14, 2017) (“[T]he fiduciary relationship requires that the directors act prudently, loyally, and in good faith to maximize the value of the corporation over the long-term for the benefit of the providers of presumptively permanent equity capital . . .”). Facebook is a Delaware company.

Has this law ever been enforced against a company; that is, is there a ore-existing verdict against a Delaware company for violating this statute? Or is this more of a hypothetical threat? What would the damages or penalty be for violation? It’s not like you can demand money a company should have made without cause or more importantly, verifiable harm to the counter-party.

Certainly it has been enforced against a company (thousands of them), but in a way it is more of a hypothetical threat. I was not referring to a statutory law, but rather to fiduciary duties, which derive from the common law of equity. The quotation from the Hsu case I provided above is a clear depiction of the standard of conduct required of directors and officers of Delaware corporations. But in reality, fiduciary standards operate more like you suggested—as a hypothetical threat. The reason for this is that, although the standards of conduct demanded of Delaware directors and officers are onerous and exacting, the standard of judicial review of challenged conduct is ordinarily very relaxed. In most ordinary situations, the standard of review is the business judgment rule, which essentially punts on the question of whether a particular action violates a fiduciary duty. The idea is that courts do not supplant directors' judgment with their own. More onerous standards of review are available in other situations, such as mergers and transactions where an interested party sits on the board or is an executive. (Facebook is an interesting example of a controlled company, given Zuckerberg's ownership stake, and its decisions might be subject to more scrutiny, but procedural safeguards are generally available to cleanse even conflicted decisionmaking.)

It's worth clarifying that only those to whom fiduciary duties are owed can ever sue for damages resulting from their breach. In other words, shareholders. That's how the threat gets operationalized—by a shareholder or class of shareholders suing the corporation for failing to maximize shareholder value through a fiduciary breach.

Anyways, the point I really wanted to make is that shareholder value maximization really is meaningfully encoded in American corporate law. If you meant to suggest that reality is less black-and-white than that, then I hope the foregoing ramble confirms that you are correct!

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