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America is giving up on the pandemic?

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#151

Post by whiddershins »

mrcorona wrote: post #120
DennisAleynikov wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no difference to covid, it doesn't ask 'oh were you protesting the right thing?'

5 Plain clothed police officers break into your house and execute your wife or daughter in their bed, then say it was a mistake and walk away scott-free (no charges)... Would you stay quiet and wait for the covid threat to die down before protesting or taking action?

This happened in Seattle like 10 years ago to a white guy. It’s horrible. All these things are horrible. Absolutely disgusting and inexcusable.

It is also a tiny fraction of the number of deaths from the virus.

Also no one demonstrated regarding that guy. I wish people would have. Maybe we could have reformed no knock warrants, and the people you are referring to would still be alive.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#152

Post by axguscbklp »

bryant wrote: post #107
axguscbklp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are the protests really founded on something significant? If they focused simply on police brutality regardless of race, that would be one thing, but the general narrative seems to be that there is a big problem of white-on-black violence in the form of cops. Now, there is such a problem, but this ignores the wider context that in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black…

[flagged]

From your source, white/black people shot to death by cops in 2018 breaks down as 399/209. That's about 2x.

Now if I take a look at: https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selY...

And I focus on arrests made in situations such as incidents of weapons possession, aggravated assault, or the violent crime aggregate, I don't see much of a discrepancy versus that 2x. For example, for the violent crime aggregate it breaks down as 288620/187470. That's about 1.5x. That is, 1.5x as many white people as black people got arrested for violent crimes. Yet 2x as many white people as black people got shot by cops in that year.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#153

Post by ncallaway »

fpgaminer wrote: post #62

Something odd I noticed in my local area is that for the most part all the protestors are wearing masks, yet people happily lounge around _inside_ restaurants without masks (and many times the staff themselves aren't wearing masks). I really feel like the protests are less of a vector than people think they are given this behavior. Perhaps it's like the car accident paradox where streets that would seem more dangerou…

One thing that really frustrates me is that mask usage among protestors in Seattle is very good. Well north of 90%. I look around in the protests and in hundreds of people see one or two not wearing a mask.

The you look across the lines at the national guard and the Seattle PD at see one or two masks at most! Why aren't the NG and PD wearing masks? Like, it's the smallest sign of caring and they don't do it.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#154

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #135
DennisAleynikov wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its a similar effect on fivethirtyeight, they were closely monitoring covid with most articles, then switched to 'protests good, what is covid-19?' as the 'justified' protests have taken place

Why did you put the word justified in quotes?

Either the vitriol people received for protesting the lockdown, wanting to reopen their businesses and resume life - they were labelled essentially as murderers and #COVIDIOTS - was justified OR the mass protests, flouting of concern about the virus, etc. is justified.

You cannot have both.

So either those out and about without masks, or protesting the lockdown, etc. AND the current protests are justified as COVID isn't actually a real concern, OR both sets of protests are unjustified because a lack of concern for COVID is in essence negligent homicide, and the current consort should be labelled as the previous.

What you cannot say is that the first set of actions were unjustified but the second justified, whilst in the midst of the same conditions with the same virus making its way through our people. You may try to insert a "but" in there somewhere, but that will be merely a reflection of your political biases or adherence to the narrative of your chosen publication.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#155

Post by tomp »

Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

Did you also support the protests against the lockdown, with the same justification?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#156

Post by TAForObvReasons »

lostapathy wrote: post #67
ianai wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s crazy though is for the first time in my life I actually fear for the future existence of the US. I watched 9/11 in real time and that didn’t feel as much of a threat to our existence as this does. There’s an actual civil war movement among the extremists now. I don’t think that existed during the civil rights movement days, even. Nor even the Vietnam fallout.

I think there's a lot of rose colored history about the civil rights movement. We're mostly taught one side of it in school - that good people protested and won out over bad people. We don't, in general, talk about the horrible things that were happening back then. Only unlike a lot of racial problems today, they happened in plain sight and were celebrated. I know Rand Paul got a lot of hate for his recent speech aga…

The black panthers [1] emerged precisely because of police brutality and the lack of recourse / accountability. The difference this time is that the internet and cameras made it possible for people across the country to hear and see the stories up close. Suddenly the victims weren't random people in a far away land -- they had an identity, and watching their last moments makes the racial bias all too clear. History might not repeat itself, but it definitely does rhyme

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party#Founding_t...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#157

Post by [deleted] »

axguscbklp wrote: post #152
bryant wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

From your source, white/black people shot to death by cops in 2018 breaks down as 399/209. That's about 2x. Now if I take a look at: https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selY... And I focus on arrests made in situations such as incidents of weapons possession, aggravated assault, or the violent crime aggregate, I don't see much of a discrepancy versus that 2x. For example, for the violent crime agg…

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#158

Post by axguscbklp »

danbolt wrote: post #125
axguscbklp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are the protests really founded on something significant? If they focused simply on police brutality regardless of race, that would be one thing, but the general narrative seems to be that there is a big problem of white-on-black violence in the form of cops. Now, there is such a problem, but this ignores the wider context that in this country, black-on-white violence is a much bigger problem than white-on-black…

I was under the impression that most violence happens between members of the same race in United States. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

That is correct. But the media narrative of the protests seems to focus on the race A vs. race B issue.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#159

Post by glofish »

anticonformist wrote: post #110
thethethethe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? People denounced those protesters because they were protesting because many of them thought the virus was a hoax or because they couldn’t get a hair cut or buy lawn fertilizer. The current protests are addressing systemic racism black people have faced in America for hundreds of years an…

These protests are going to result in the deaths of thousands of people. They are clearly irresponsible during a pandemic. Gathering in large groups with no physical distancing is tantamount to conspiring to commit mass murder. The problem of racial inequality has existed for "hundreds of years" so why not push the protests back 1 year so it won't unnecessarily cost many people their lives? There is no reasonable sug…

Look up the Massachusettes death rates.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-dashboard-june-7-2020/down...

In the age group of under 50 years old, the death rate due to COVID 19 is 10 out 100,000 (!), that is half of that attributed to the flu, no seriously

it is very unlikely that the protest will have much effect

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#160

Post by throwmehaweh »

fullshark wrote: post #63
jbay808 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assembly is valuable, but there's a certain misery that comes with self-isolating for two weeks living on canned beans, having many businesses shut down, and working so hard at this to protect the lives of your elderly parents or your asthmatic sibling... ... And then watching 10,000 people pack together downtown exercising their right to free assembly, and likely undoing all those months of progress.

It's not just misery, it feels fundamentally unjust. Basically some rule violations are deemed more equal than others, so why should I care anymore? If we're not "all in this together" why should I suffer?

exactly, they’ve lost all credibility and are at risk of having cried wolf now
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