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Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

wsj.com

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Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#151

Post by irq11 »

Lewton wrote: post #148
irq11 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn’t making a broad comparison to the flu. But if I were, I’d cite the most recent CDC numbers, which put the overall fatality rates somewhere around 3-4x worse than the flu, in the expected case: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... Yes, this virus is worse than the flu. But not nearly to the extent being portrayed by the OP. All illnesses have long-term sequelae. (Also, since you’re r…

Where are you getting the numbers for flu? As far as I'm aware the best guess for flu IFR is 0.04% compared to COVID-19s 0.4% IFR Note that CDC data on the flu is not on the IFR, they only have an estimate for the symptomatic fatality rate which doesn't include asymptomatic flu cases, while their COVID-19 IFR is including asymptomatic cases too. (This seems to be because really caring about the true IFR of a virus is…

The numbers I cited from the CDC for Covid are symptomatic fatality rates. You can work out an asymptomatic rate by using their estimated percentage of asymptomatic infections, if you like.

> Where are you getting the numbers for flu? As far as I'm aware the best guess for flu IFR is 0.04% compared to COVID-19s 0.4% IFR

Any number of different sources; 0.1% is the generally accepted estimate of overall IFR for influenza in an average year, based on statistical extrapolation from seroprevalence surveys. Here’s an article that tries to be as fatalistic as possible, which still cites an overall IFR for flu of 0.1%:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the...

If you absolutely do not want to rely on CDC numbers, here’s a literature review on the subject which puts the symptomatic IFR at 0.1%, at the extreme high end. Most estimates of symptomatic IFR, according to the review, are between 5-50 / 100k:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809029/#!po=0....

There’s clearly a large variance in estimates for the flu at all levels, but no reasonable way to claim a 10x difference in severity for Covid without cherry-picking the worst estimates for it, and the best estimates for influenza.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#152

Post by nvr219 »

phkahler wrote: post #135
sparkywolf wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a medical reason not related to Covid in any way, I've lived my entire life not being able to smell anything, whatsoever. I'm getting a surgery in two days that should give me a sense of smell. While I'm over the moon excited to be able to smell... I didn't even think about how it would affect taste...

What surgery? I know someone with no sense of smell and didnt think there was any hope of fixing it.

Nose replacement surgery

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#153

Post by Lewton »

irq11 wrote: post #151
Lewton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting the numbers for flu? As far as I'm aware the best guess for flu IFR is 0.04% compared to COVID-19s 0.4% IFR Note that CDC data on the flu is not on the IFR, they only have an estimate for the symptomatic fatality rate which doesn't include asymptomatic flu cases, while their COVID-19 IFR is including asymptomatic cases too. (This seems to be because really caring about the true IFR of a virus is…

The numbers I cited from the CDC for Covid are symptomatic fatality rates. You can work out an asymptomatic rate by using their estimated percentage of asymptomatic infections, if you like. > Where are you getting the numbers for flu? As far as I'm aware the best guess for flu IFR is 0.04% compared to COVID-19s 0.4% IFR Any number of different sources; 0.1% is the generally accepted estimate of overall IFR for influe…

> The numbers I cited from the CDC for Covid are symptomatic fatality rates.

I guess the CDC are using symptomatic case fatality to mean the IFR then? Or else it doesn't make any sense.

> Any number of different sources; 0.1% is the generally accepted estimate of overall IFR for influenza in an average year. Here’s an article that tries to be as fatalistic as possible, which still cites an overall IFR for flu of 0.1%:

That was exactly what I was talking about, they use this source from the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm which again is explicitly talking about "symptomatic cases"

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#154

Post by random_upvoter »

I had some flu thing in the beginning of February and I had this weird symptom where anything that contained vinegar (like ketchup) had this terrible acetone-like taste -- I almost brought back the bottle to the store for a refund.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#156

Post by hwillis »

perf1 wrote: post #149
disillusioned wrote: post #93

I had Covid-19 (confirmed antibodies test, wife had confirmed PCR) in early March. Lost my sense of smell and taste _completely_, almost immediately. I've lost some smell before with bad allergies or a congested nose. This was otherworldly: no smell, at all. Not solvents. Not strong fragrances. Nothing. And this, with a perfectly clear nose. It freaked me out. It lasted for about 2.5 weeks. Around week 3, it started…

Zinc deficiency also results in loss of smell. I heard the theory that your immune system consumes your Zinc reserves to fight the Virus.

No, that doesn't track. Smell impairment (not even loss) only comes with very severe zinc deficiency- which is not happening over a single day. I lost my sense of smell over roughly 8 hours. There are also tons of other symptoms of zinc poisoning that would be very obvious. It doesn't make sense that it would do smell, but not sight or hair loss.

People have been trying to tie covid to zinc since the beginning, IMO mostly out of desperation. Zinc oral sprays were pulled by the FDA for causing permanent total loss of smell- by coating the inside of your nose with zinc. People just wanted it to be related.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#157

Post by hwillis »

thombat wrote: post #95
disillusioned wrote: post #93

I had Covid-19 (confirmed antibodies test, wife had confirmed PCR) in early March. Lost my sense of smell and taste _completely_, almost immediately. I've lost some smell before with bad allergies or a congested nose. This was otherworldly: no smell, at all. Not solvents. Not strong fragrances. Nothing. And this, with a perfectly clear nose. It freaked me out. It lasted for about 2.5 weeks. Around week 3, it started…

Very interesting description, since the early casual discussions of this symptom assumed that it was simply mechanical ('flu symptoms, inflamed mucous membranes, stuffed nose, of course they can't smell). Later I saw it described as a neurological issue and so potentially being a lot more serious, which your experience seems to support. Other than the concomitant anxiety and stress ("freaked me out") did you notice o…

it's definitely not stuffy nose, I had the same utterly dry nose. In fact I felt more aware of the inside of my sinuses than I ever have before... they felt completely empty. It was almost nice except that it was really freaky and something felt off about the sensation.

My nose has recovered significantly and I have a more familiar pressure in my cheekbones and forehead that was missing when I was sick.

IMO, based entirely on my own anecdotal experience, it's probably that the virus is really, really lethal against the respiratory lining. I have no idea what would make it so specific- maybe ACE? But it felt like it was just burning through my lungs and then my nose. It felt... dead, inside.

The ~8 hour period of losing my sense of smell was characterized by an extremely powerful smell of snot and a subtle kind of ammonia-like sensation. The distinctive smell of snot is apparently mostly due to free radicals generated by dying cells. I'm not sure this contradicts with nerve-related action though, which could presumably cause similar sensations.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#158

Post by hwillis »

jansan wrote: post #105
disillusioned wrote: post #93

I had Covid-19 (confirmed antibodies test, wife had confirmed PCR) in early March. Lost my sense of smell and taste _completely_, almost immediately. I've lost some smell before with bad allergies or a congested nose. This was otherworldly: no smell, at all. Not solvents. Not strong fragrances. Nothing. And this, with a perfectly clear nose. It freaked me out. It lasted for about 2.5 weeks. Around week 3, it started…

Did you have no sense of taste at all? I had to live with almost no sense of smell for about 20 years, but I could taste sweet and salty. So if you put a spoon of sugar in your mouth, there was no sense of sweetness at all? If so, that would really be a next level experience.

For me, I could not tell the difference between coffee and water. Energy drinks did not taste at all sweet; they felt slightly syrupy/viscous and I could feel the bubbles on my tongue. I could sense saltiness to some degree, but not in a way I can relate to how I taste things now.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#159

Post by loufe »

neuronic wrote: post #116
gambiting wrote: post #106

The thing that people don't realise with virus infections is that it can mess you up for a long time, even if it's not lethal. I've had a human parvovirus B19 infection last year(apparently it's incredibly rare in adults, but hey ho), and yeah, I felt like absolute shit for about 2 months, really high fevers, no appetite, basically like a very bad flu that lasted nearly 2 months, but then once it finally went away, I…

Epstein-Barr virus (mono) fucked me up for weeks and I have never been the same since then. Jumpstarted hypothyroidism as well which is now autoimmune/Hashimoto's. Virus infections can really really mess you up.

I also had a very rough ride from mono. I was in bed for over a month and came out some very unpleasant side effects. I developed a tic disorder (suspected PANDAS) which has lasted the 6 years since and my immune system was so weak I caught the common cold about once a month for 2 years. Also launched me into depression which took a couple years to climb out of. It is no joke, that's for sure.

Re: Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet

#160

Post by gnulinux »

TrueGeek wrote: post #136
sparkywolf wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a medical reason not related to Covid in any way, I've lived my entire life not being able to smell anything, whatsoever. I'm getting a surgery in two days that should give me a sense of smell. While I'm over the moon excited to be able to smell... I didn't even think about how it would affect taste...

My mother has 0% sense of smell. Her cooking skills were... spotty.

Just another anecdote: my grandmother lost her sense of smell in her 20s after a car crash. Her cooking skills were pretty ok. She wasn't an amazing cook, but definitely made food better than me and my mom.
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