Live data from Hacker News

Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

axios.com

151–160 of 1001 posts

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an interesting thought experiment to assess in what ways Twitter is a "private website". It really is a public web space that is operated by a private company, but I can't help but feel that the nuances and similarities of what Twitter really is and what responsibility they truly hold in society is above the courts comprehension.

It's further complicated by the people who sued Trump for blocking them. They won, he had to unblock them. Considering they could log out (or open a private tab) and view the content, obviously it wasn't access to the information that was fundamental but the act of the President taking a step to reduce someone's access. With that in mind, does the host have the authority to take the same action? Why or why not? This…

As a government official, you cannot take action to try to impede someone's access to your official statements. That is independent of the platform, and independent of how much work someone has to do to still access the information.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

devil's advocate: why doesn't Twitter fact check everyone? Twitter is picking sides on a comment made by a user so they should be held liable for that content

Because for lesser mortals, Twitter just bans people who violate their terms of service. The President is "too big to ban," but violates the TOS. This was a "compromise" solution, which obviously is not going to work.

I've grown to hate Twitter's complicity in... whatever the hell we should call the political world we live in right now, but right now I'm just amused. Because I'd like to think the people who created Twitter or are working there probably have a conscience and Anti-Trump leanings, but they've let him get away so much that they are now part of the scum they probably despise.

You know how people can be reserved in the real world but say the weirdest shit on Twitter? Honestly, Trump is such a coward, I think without Twitter he wouldn't have dared spit the venom he's been spitting left and right, because he would've had to go in front of a lectern to be heard instead.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#153
post #113
post #92

What's surprising is how often I encounter fellow Americans mistakenly asserting the first amendment extends beyond government and into the private sector. It's like they've never even been to a movie theater where they need to shut the hell up or leave. And here we have a US president signing an executive order in response to being moderated on a web site after years of arguably excessive tolerance of his b.s. I'm n…

Most people totally miss the point. The first amendment is there from preventing the government from controlling the speech. Exactly what Trump is doing to Twitter right now.

> Most people totally miss the point.

Because 'free speech' is literally _all they know_ about the subject. If they did look it up, they would literally see the very first words of the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law (...)".

Literally about the legislative branch. Every other consequence of the First Amendment comes from that. Other laws can be more specific and may grant more rights, but this just specifies what the government can't take away.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#154

Oh my goodness is he a big dumb stupid moron. At the risk of this being downvoted to oblivion, why doesn't he think that Twitter, a privately run company, has the right to fact-check claims made on their site? Even if there were some secret evil liberal agenda on Twitter, which there absolutely is not, why aren't they allowed to do that exactly? Is he planning on holding Fox News to the same standard and make them pu…

I'm sorry but you have a fundamentally flawed model for how Trump (and many in the GOP) think about the world.

You're operating under a principle that says that people are essential equal in terms of rights and that there is a moral obligation to consistency. The old Golden Rule, and everything. Under that framework, it's stupid to punch someone in the face unless you also want to get punched in the face, because your principle of equivalence says that you should be prepared to receive anything you give.

But these people have an entirely different model. There is no right and wrong. No fairness, no consistency. It is simply a model of power. If you have the power to do a thing, you can do a thing. And if others don't have enough power to do the same back to you, their loss.

You wouldn't get irate that the Earth pulls the moon out of its orbit more than the moon affects the Earth. It's not "unfair" that the Earth has more mass. It is simply a fact, and that fact determines how those planetary bodies act.

The mentality of authoritarians is the same with respect to power. The universe has granted power to some and not others, and the only moral code is to use what you have to do what you can get away with.

It's confusing, because these people often use words like "right" and "fair", but they are using them purely as tools of power for the effect using the words has on others, and not under any actual belief in them. My kids when they were toddlers would cry "not fair" any time they didn't get their way, because they learned that claiming something was unfair was sometimes an effective strategy to sway parents. It's the same thing.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to pay the old telephone company and it's a lot more private communication than Twitter. Yet they had common carrier statis, which is how we should want ISPs regulated. Where twitter and friends fit simply hasn't been defined yet.

The argument falls apart at the ISP level - why does the UN consider internet a human right, but not, specifically , access to Twitter? It may seem like there's no distinction at all but it is there and it is important.

Much better examples than Twitter.

If I have the right to every website then how about password-protected ones. Do I then have the right to demand that Apple give me access to everyone's iCloud website ?

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#156
post #90

Wait, if this was somehow enforceable wouldn’t the order make Twitter liable for trump posting misinformation essentially making them legally required to censor or flag him?

I think it may actually be a way to empower companies to gain more access to information. If the companies are responsible, then they will want to sue the users for violations and personally identify them. A side effect is that they will have some government agency deciding what is acceptable or not. Much like China.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it will lead to what happened on reddit: the worst go off to a competitor which then fails to gain mainstream attention (e.g. Voat, Gab, etc). While they’ll be in an echo-chamber (which isn’t a good thing at all), at least they won’t ruin other communities.

The problem there is that these sites have become echo-chambers, where they breed extremism. These kinds of ideologies (E.G. Nazism) need to be exposed to the light, like a bacteria, in order to be shamed and debunked.

How does that work out though in practice?

If I go to a bar and there's some guy screaming about his Nazi ideology and the owners don't kick him out, I'm going to just move on.

If some social media platform is full of trolls and hatred and such... people are just going to go away. It becomes a 'race to the bottom'.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#158
post #42
post #32

Really curious to hear the rational from supposedly small government republicans

As much as there ever really were "small government republicans" there certainly aren't any today. "Owning the libs" is the only reason the current batch of conservatives gets out of bed in the morning. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nratv-dan-bongino-my-life-is-...

Absolutely. To get a slice of that thinking. Here's Rush Limbaugh:

(backstory: Trump has been repeatedly peddling an absolutely baseless claim that his TV critic Joe Scarborough murdered his employee couple of decades back. Her husband is now pleading that Trump is causing irreparable damage to their family). Anyway, here's Limbaugh:

“The thing here is when you get to Trump and his conspiracy theories, he does it in a really clever way,” he proclaimed. “And this is where people don’t get the subtlety of Trump because they don’t think he has the ability to be subtle. Trump never says that he believes these conspiracy theories that he touts. He’s simply passing them on.”

Asked by his producer whether he thinks “Trump cares whether Scarborough murdered anybody or not,” Limbaugh replied that the president doesn’t care but is tweeting about it “because it’s out there.”

“So Trump is just throwing gasoline on a fire here, and he’s having fun watching the flames—and he’s having fun watching these holier-than-thou leftist journalists react like their moral sensibilities have been forever rocked and can never recover,” he concluded.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#159
post #32

Really curious to hear the rational from supposedly small government republicans

Some of them disagree with this thankfully. But to be fair, I've seen a lot of supposed progressives on Twitter suddenly finding themselves very concerned with the rights of private businesses.

I have always championed the right to free expression, whether that is an individual hosting content or a company deciding what content it wants to host and how to display it. The government should play no part in either case.

Re: Trump signs executive order targeting protections for social media companies

#160
To repeat my comment from a different thread:

If we accept corporations as people, I wish some of the ones with actual power had the backbone to do a bit of civil disobedience, instead of rolling over at the first sign of trouble. Twitter should double down and add a fact-check sticker to every single Trump lie, past and current — to hell with lawsuits and the FCC. Otherwise, we'll "maybe parts of this sound reasonable" our way straight into a goose-stepping, thought-shaping, Republican-ruled dictatorship. Surely, even the people who scoffed at this idea a few years ago can see this future taking shape.

I am aghast that there's any support for this in the once-countercultural Silicon Valley. It's abhorrent and shameful, and it makes me fear that maybe the gravity well is already too large to escape. Meanwhile, people like Zuckerberg and Musk are tripping over themselves to appease the ruling party.

(Just a reminder that earlier today, Trump retweeted a video declaring that "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat." I suppose this is one of those good old fashioned Republican values that our liberal bias works so hard to suppress.)

Post reply on HN