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A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

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Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#151
post #3

>“What’s worrying is the effect this situation is clearly having on young adults.” I wonder if this is a perverse side effect of normalcy bias [0]? For me, a person in middle age, I can look back at my life and see a lifetime of fairly stable history with only a few traumatic events (9/11, 2008 crash). If you're 22, the current circumstances make up a much larger portion of your life. >The toll has also hit the poor…

I'm gonna speak purely anecdotally, and this is personal opinion.

I was born in 82 in France, was 19 on 9/11/2001.

It definitely shaped my psyche and world view. You just don't grow up as naively when you know 9/11 is an option (the end result, however we got there).

I realized last Sept (19) as I visited the Memorial in NYC for the first time that this had had a long, lasting effect on me. I sobbed in the room where you listen to a flight attendant's last call to her husband. Upon exit I saluted the security guard with deep gratitude. We exchanged a timid smile from the eyes. It felt right.

The shitshow that occurred in the US in the years following 9/11 (Patriot Act, Iraq conspiracy to bring in my country to war, Obama spying on Merkel and Hollande and condoning PRISM, etc) made me realize, with profound disappointment, how idealistic and naive I had been about the USA, as if their recent suffering made them somehow impervious to be becoming hostile. I now realize how ridiculous my optimism had been, and the truth is I have countless examples right here at home in history and reality.

The fact is we get over something like 9/11, we move on, but sometimes we're reminded that this shaped us deeply.

I believe COVID will have bigger and more lasting effects on youth, it's just so much bigger and longer. I hope it will help produce the bigger kind of changes that make history move forward.

> You probably couldn't design a situation in a lab that would screw over the poor more than COVID-19.

This is very true in the US and most countries around the world. If I were poor and I could choose where, I'd certainly prefer to be poor in Western Europe where at least it's not a death sentence thanks to free healthcare and a minimum socio-economic net (it's not perfect, far from it, but if I had to choose... better than the USA certainly under COVID, and that would probably remain true whoever the president is given the lasting social security structure).

I feel grateful, in a way, that we're taking care of poor people. I know many rich entrepreneurs today in Europe who, at some point in their life, were poor AF and may have died if it weren't for all the social nets, they might have never become who they are today. Some of them employ 100+ people, others have contributed massively to funding education (lifelong notably, for adults too).

This tangent to say: it's worse for the poor and probably always will be, but that's also how some eventually create value beyond mere wealth. The "trick" is to avoid death, whether social or clinical, when people are drowning. In that regard, most rich countries do worse today than 50 years ago (chances for children to do a better job than their parents), and that's deeply, deeply worrying because it's the very fuel of our current wealth and domination over existence (how modern civilizations are so much better at surviving, at thriving, thanks to science, tech, political stability, etc.)

Food for thought, and room for improvement, which I'm sure those most shocked by COVID will have no choice but to care about. They will have seen the fall, so they are uniquely qualified to build the next new rise.

Edit: math...

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#152

I mean how much data and analysis do we really need at this point to realize America is a complete shit show at the moment. Statistics be damned, Inductive Reasoning needs to take center stage here.

Ah, very insightful.

Is there a consensus on what makes it bad and how it should be remedied?

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#153
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stressful stage of life for a lot of people. The quarter life crisis is very real. Young people tend to have young kids, or roommates, or tiny apartments, and working from home is a larger strain, especially at the entry/junior level which is a stressful rat race in many fields. Plus you don't have much wealth built up if you do get laid off, and little experience on your resume to justify being rehired qui…

When in human history has life for most not been stressful? If anything life for most today (even the young with kids, roommates or tiny apartments) is far less stressful than for most humans in history. There's a complete loss of perspective today.

Stress is not just a matter of the facts of every day life. That's almost like saying all that matters is if you can eat and sleep. That is not what most people want out of life. They want meaning in their life, respect, and love. Those are all things that are way way way more difficult to get today than at almost any time during human history.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#154
post #42

I wonder what's the correlation between this and people being underpaid. I'm fortunate enough to have my own house after graduation so I don't have to pay rent. But I have friends that don't have this luxury and man, they are struggling. Besides eating and rent they can't afford anything else in a month. No question here what's giving them these feelings

I live in Denmark, where we lift a lot of the burden of civilisation together, to give everyone access to education, health/elderly/child care as well as a solid security system for those who get unemployed. And here society is hard enough these days, pressing more and more people beyond their limits. I really wonder how you all do it in America.

Exceptionalism.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#155
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stressful stage of life for a lot of people. The quarter life crisis is very real. Young people tend to have young kids, or roommates, or tiny apartments, and working from home is a larger strain, especially at the entry/junior level which is a stressful rat race in many fields. Plus you don't have much wealth built up if you do get laid off, and little experience on your resume to justify being rehired qui…

When in human history has life for most not been stressful? If anything life for most today (even the young with kids, roommates or tiny apartments) is far less stressful than for most humans in history. There's a complete loss of perspective today.

I'm not gonna disagree, but I think the difference now is an extreme focus on the self and an impossible expectation to feel happy and content.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When in human history has life for most not been stressful? If anything life for most today (even the young with kids, roommates or tiny apartments) is far less stressful than for most humans in history. There's a complete loss of perspective today.

Stress is not just a matter of the facts of every day life. That's almost like saying all that matters is if you can eat and sleep. That is not what most people want out of life. They want meaning in their life, respect, and love. Those are all things that are way way way more difficult to get today than at almost any time during human history.

I really don't think so. The people in the past were not getting automatic respect and were not getting automatic love. The marriage was often economic transaction and you often had to live among people who did not respected you. The marriage happened after short time of knowing each other and if it turned out mistake, that was it forever, no love.

Some people's lives had meaning, plenty of others were basically surviving in routine .

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A young person is building their life, lockdown is preventing them from doing that. I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month of not finding a partner, get to know each other, make life plans, an…

> I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month of not finding a partner, get to know each other, make life plans, and get pregnant? No, but millions have lost their jobs due to the shutdown, and it's…

I know that the whole "have kids" thing, which we were thinking about, has basically been totally shut down. Nope, this is craziness, time to just survive for the next few years.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#158
post #42

I wonder what's the correlation between this and people being underpaid. I'm fortunate enough to have my own house after graduation so I don't have to pay rent. But I have friends that don't have this luxury and man, they are struggling. Besides eating and rent they can't afford anything else in a month. No question here what's giving them these feelings

I live in Denmark, where we lift a lot of the burden of civilisation together, to give everyone access to education, health/elderly/child care as well as a solid security system for those who get unemployed. And here society is hard enough these days, pressing more and more people beyond their limits. I really wonder how you all do it in America.

The United States and Denmark are very different countries.

The U.S. has nearly 4x as fast population growth, 2x as many immigrants, 10x the incarceration rate, much greater religious and racial diversity, 100x more billionaires, 17% less GDP per capita, and 3x as much debt/GDP.

I'll refrain from opining as to what is cause and what is effect, but the differences are many.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#159

Before this incident (I've been through a few disasters and violent incidents), I was already on my 13th antidepressant (vilazodone) which doesn't appear to be working. Also on propranolol, clonidine, atomoxetine, carbamazepine, baclofen, gabapentin, and 40 mg/day of CBD. I buy CBD isolate (pure CBD) in bulk and make my own sublingual tincture using a precisely-measured ratio of ingredients comprising: - Organic coco…

It sounds like you're in a bad place. Lots of us have been there. Seek help from others, please. There are people around, hopefully in your local area, who can help.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#160

As an American it's not surprising at all. Six figures of student loan debt, job insecurity, healthcare insecurity, rampant poverty / homelessness, the most despicable president to disgrace the white house (who didn't even win the popular vote), stay-at-home orders because the U.S. couldn't manage the crisis, lack of community (doesn't help that 99% of the country is sprawl), rampant obesity, and general lack of hope…

Don't forget the internet and the constant FOMO and comparisons to people at their best points in life, or the fact that the social dynamics of dating have gotten crazy.

Attractive, fit, intelligent men get a completely outsized proportion of the interest on apps like Bumble and Tinder, while even median men are mostly ignored.

America is in the worst shape in the West, but these trends are getting worse here in Canada and elsewhere too.

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