Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube • Hacker News Board

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#151

Post by shadowgovt » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

But is it replaced with "I'm an American company?"

There's a deep rabbit-hole of hyper-nationalism right next to the deep rabbit-hole of hyper-corporatism. Does a YouTube beholden to the US government get banned from being used in China at all? And if it does, what happens when China creates a competing product that is more successful than YouTube, and YouTube gets displaced globally by a product that is beholden to China's censorship policies in general, not just in isolated cases?

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#152

Post by nialv7 » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #65

strictnein wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They look at their bank accounts.

That doesn't justify their behavior - it condemns it.

Yeah, but it's a good reason for a lot of them to keep working at the company and turn a deaf ear towards what it's been doing.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#153

Post by missosoup » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

brmgb wrote: post #139

missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

Some users tend to flag stories about China and censorship because they generate a lot of nationalistic and hot headed comments and very little actual intelligent discussion. Just look at the comments attached to this submission.

The submission I linked is not flagged (at least as far as I can see from my account?). Either there's some non-intuitive stuff going on with the way submissions stay on the front page, or HN soft-nuked it. Either way I think we deserve an explanation and a clear understanding of the underlying rules.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#154

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

> a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels

Does Google rise to this level? Facebook, Twitter, cable TV and every newspaper and blog would seem to present a decent front of competition.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#155

Post by jshevek » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

That is a bigger issue for our society, yes. But it's also understandable that people might be very interested in alleged problems that strike closer to home for them. In this case, if there is an issue worth considering at HN, exploring it could give insight into the larger issue as well.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#156

Post by jpxw » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

barbegal wrote: post #132

As a software engineer I understand these sort of bugs. A product manager in China asks: can we find a way to prevent people commenting on these videos with comments that contain the word 共匪. Engineer goes away and comes up with a plan to train an AI model to detect these comments. He present's this solution to his manager who informs him that the solution needs to be in place next week, there is no time to gather th…

If you’re right, Google will stop removing these comments now that it has gotten publicity (although personally I heard about it ~a week ago) and apologise.

I won’t be holding my breath.

Edit: I’ve just noticed the Google support claim here was posted in late 2019. It’s somewhat hard to believe that this has just flown under Google’s radar.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#157

Post by duxup » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #90

haram_masala wrote: post #47

Why would Google do this, though? They seem to have mostly ceded the Chinese market.

Because the Chinese market is huge. Because freedom of speech in the Western world is an individual liberty which platforms such as YouTube do not need to guarantee, whereas censorship in China is an absolute requirement they must abide by. The payoffs are asymmetric. If we had legislation in the EU or in the US that demanded that YouTube not tamper with users’ comments, then they’d have to choose between one side an…

That doesn't really answer the question of that other user.

Google largely has largely taken being excluded from China in stride, the other user is wondering why they would do this now.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#158

Post by mendelmaleh » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #67

ddevault wrote: post #38

Google & YouTube employees on HN: how do you justify still working at this company? Enough of the cognitive dissonance. Face your choices and tell me how you square yourself with them. For shame.

It might be easy to say this, but I believe I would quit if I was asked to implement something like that. But perhaps I'd be different if I were paid $300k a year. (I sure hope not, though)

No one will ever ask you to implement something "like that". It probably was an ordinary blacklist that probably started to "protect children" form porn and such, then it went on to "protect teenagers" from radicalization, and now it will protect adults from anti-communist/chinese comments. We've made the bed.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#159

Post by SquareWheel » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

paulintrognon wrote: post #24

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #16

"Don't be evil"

It's been dropped since 2018. https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-dont-be-evil/2540...

Did you read the article you linked? It's no longer prefacing the code of conduct, but it's still included in it. They moved it from the opening statement to the closing statement.

Despite four comments now incorrectly posting otherwise, it has never once been removed from the code of conduct.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#160

Post by rixed » Mon, May 18, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

ddevault wrote: post #38

Google & YouTube employees on HN: how do you justify still working at this company? Enough of the cognitive dissonance. Face your choices and tell me how you square yourself with them. For shame.

Other companies have been doing the same for many years?