Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts • Hacker News Board

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#151

Post by jcrawfordor » Fri, May 08, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

verylittlemeat wrote: post #102

ensignavenger wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraud in debt collection is rampant. Yes, there are legitimate debtors, but you can't assume than some one who is being sued legitimately owes the debt. Even without fraud, many debt collectors illegally harass the debtors, knowing they can't afford a lawyer to defend themselves.

AFAIK harassment in most states is very illegal now and is a great way to get your debt dismissed. The same goes for fraud in debt collection. As I mentioned in previous comments, tactics like sewer service by debt collectors are a great way to get your debt dismissed. Many people with lapsed unsecured debt know they owe that money, they simply prefer to pretend the debt will go away if they ignore it. If they don't…

I mean, I've been harassed by years for a debt that doesn't even belong to me, but rather to the person who previously had my phone number. Over the years I have learned their name, address, name of one of their family members, amount of the debt, and who the debt was originally owed to (a local government agency no less). The debt collectors shouldn't have disclosed any of this to me but they did, unprompted, often in voice mail. Mailed threats have been unsuccessful in stopping the calls, as when I send a nastygram to one collector they seem to just sell the debt on to another.

I guess my point is that the legal protections against harassment do exist but are not effective. It's not even my debt and I have a master's degree and generous income and I ended up changing my phone number in order to stop multiple calls per day. So to whoever ends up getting that number assigned, sorry about Esteban's $8k in back tuition and good luck.

The irony is that my new phone number also gets calls from debt collectors, but far less often. It seems the debt was either smaller or sold into a less predatory corner of the industry.

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#152

Post by djannzjkzxn » Fri, May 08, 2020, 3:36 AM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #142

imtringued wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those artificially low lending standards merely enabled loans that shouldn't exist.

This is true but we did it for a reason. Buying a car used to require 35% down, 12-24 month payments, and 10%+ interest. The average price of a new car is around $30,000. What percentage of Americans can afford a $10,500 down payment and a $900 monthly payment? I’d guess less than 15% but it’s just a guess.

People shouldn’t be tricked into taking on tens of thousands of dollars in depreciation by committing to many years of monthly payments. Yes this system is good for car manufacturers, but no I don’t think that’s worth how much it ruins the finances of a good chunk of the country.

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#153

Post by wheelerwj » Fri, May 08, 2020, 4:01 AM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #97

netcan wrote: post #14

There have been journalists & researchers who covered these debt collectors at court. When defendants showed up, organised, they usually won. The debt collectors' lawyers didn't arrive prepared to win, because most people didn't show up. If you can win 85% of cases just by showing up, why bother. A court system that allows these dynamics to dominate isn't serving well.

In little people law, such as, debt collection, landlord tenant, family law, some bankruptcy/creditor issues, it usually doesn't take much effort to disrupt the volume practitioners. The volume-based attorneys often exclusively practice in one area and rarely face an attorney. The few times I defended people, it really threw a monkey wrench into the process. Unfortunately, there is no money in being a white knight in…

There has to be a way to apply some kind of scaling to this kind of defense..

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#154

Post by mehrdadn » Fri, May 08, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #117

verylittlemeat wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to have a default judgment against a person they must be served (aware of the situation). If you're being told "show up to court or face a negative outcome" and you do nothing then whose fault is that? You took on the debt. You decided not to show up in court. Are debtors just never accountable for their actions? Also to quote a comment by a lawyer in this thread >I am licensed in California and Texas, and i…

People default all the time because they don't really appreciate what can happen if they ignore a court summons. And, often people mistakenly rely on the advice of friends or family who suggest the debtor wasn't served properly, the debt is too old, they spelled your middle name wrong, or whatever. There are tons of legal myths out there, such as, non-competes can't be enforced, it takes months to evict someone, I ca…

> There are tons of legal myths out there, such as, non-competes can't be enforced

At the risk of going off-topic: would you happen to have more reading on this?

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#155

Post by dlhavema » Fri, May 08, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #143

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it only gets to court after harassment hasn't worked. Anecdata: guy I know had a common name. Debt collector fastened on him because he'd lived in the same town as a deadbeat with that name too. Guy would call day and night demanding payment.

Is it necessary to call someone with debt a “deadbeat”? Often the people who are being hounded by debt collectors are victims of predatory lending and a system designed to punish them with fees for being poor.

The name/title doesn't always apply, true. But sometimes it really does.

Most blanket statements have flaws in them...

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#156

Post by dd36 » Fri, May 08, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

wheelerwj wrote: post #153

pnw_hazor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In little people law, such as, debt collection, landlord tenant, family law, some bankruptcy/creditor issues, it usually doesn't take much effort to disrupt the volume practitioners. The volume-based attorneys often exclusively practice in one area and rarely face an attorney. The few times I defended people, it really threw a monkey wrench into the process. Unfortunately, there is no money in being a white knight in…

There has to be a way to apply some kind of scaling to this kind of defense..

Like classes of people...

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#157

Post by jjeaff » Fri, May 08, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

wheelerwj wrote: post #153

pnw_hazor wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In little people law, such as, debt collection, landlord tenant, family law, some bankruptcy/creditor issues, it usually doesn't take much effort to disrupt the volume practitioners. The volume-based attorneys often exclusively practice in one area and rarely face an attorney. The few times I defended people, it really threw a monkey wrench into the process. Unfortunately, there is no money in being a white knight in…

There has to be a way to apply some kind of scaling to this kind of defense..

Hard to scale up a defense if you can't even get the debtors to do the bare minimum of showing up to court.

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#158

Post by pnw_hazor » Fri, May 08, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #154

pnw_hazor wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People default all the time because they don't really appreciate what can happen if they ignore a court summons. And, often people mistakenly rely on the advice of friends or family who suggest the debtor wasn't served properly, the debt is too old, they spelled your middle name wrong, or whatever. There are tons of legal myths out there, such as, non-competes can't be enforced, it takes months to evict someone, I ca…

> There are tons of legal myths out there, such as, non-competes can't be enforced At the risk of going off-topic: would you happen to have more reading on this?

Non-compete law is dependant on the state (it various a lot). In many states non-competes are very enforceable.

Search for non-compete enforcement in the states you are interested in. You should find plenty of articles put out by law firms.

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#159

Post by pnw_hazor » Fri, May 08, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

dd36 wrote: post #156

wheelerwj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to be a way to apply some kind of scaling to this kind of defense..

Like classes of people...

Useful in some situations, but generally limited by consumer contracts and because people with damages arising out of different circumstances are hard to group into a class.

Re: Debt Collectors Are Transforming the Business of State Courts

#160

Post by mehrdadn » Fri, May 08, 2020, 5:17 AM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #158

mehrdadn wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are tons of legal myths out there, such as, non-competes can't be enforced At the risk of going off-topic: would you happen to have more reading on this?

Non-compete law is dependant on the state (it various a lot). In many states non-competes are very enforceable. Search for non-compete enforcement in the states you are interested in. You should find plenty of articles put out by law firms.

Oh, that's all you meant. I thought it was always mentioned under the context of it being unenforceable in a particular state, so that's what I was confused. Didn't even realize there are people who thought they're unenforceable everywhere!