Nicomachean Ethics • Hacker News Board

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#151

Post by achillesheels » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

gliese1337 wrote: post #150

achillesheels wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very clear heritage of the ideas of those Ancient Greek thinkers which have moved and influence world history. So I'm befuddled how you don't see sufficient evidence, nor what constitutes such sufficiency for genius? I highly recommend you read Arthur Schopenhauer's essay On Philosophy at the Universities : https://archive.org/stream/23341891SchopenhauerParergaAndPar... It is a persuasive essay that, no ma…

> There is a very clear heritage of the ideas of those Ancient Greek thinkers which have moved and influence world history. Yes, there is. But that is a very different thing from having very clear evidence that those ideas originated uniquely in a specific small set of brains whose owner's names are recorded. "This person's writings have a clear influence on history" is a very different claim from "This person was th…

Original minds do not find satisfaction in being derivative. Searching for truth leads to originality for this very reason. So it is safe to say that Socrates was a novelty in the human race because of his philosophical turn towards examining moral knowledge, which there was no previous recording of. I guess I don’t see the point in questioning it, chiefly because such genius is normally a culmination of rare and successful inter-generational cultural growth, so it really is “one-of-a-kind.”

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#152

Post by pyuser583 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #131

pyuser583 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Socrates and Aristotle both sound very anti-democratic. Thucydides explains why.

To what extent is democracy just re-branding of the concept of letting the popularity contest winner run things? Though at face value the unpopularity of winners (and near winners) makes this seem counter intuitive, but that may be explained by the extent that our sense of popularity can be and is being manipulated. As such, democracy would seem a very unpalatable outcome. Better than the alternatives they had, but l…

It’s less about Democracy vs non-Democracy, and more about virtuous Democracy vs corrupt Democracy.

It’s better to live in a virtuous aristocracy than a corrupt Democracy, and but a virtuous democracy is better than both.

It’s easy to idolize Athenian democracy, but by the time of Thucydides, it was on its last legs.

The only question is “what comes next.”

The answer history gave was “2500 years of subjugation to foreign rulers.”

Something to consider as modern Greece integrates into the EU: they have no tradition of independent democracy.

For example, Greece is currently raising cash by letting the Chinese take over the Piraeus.

To Americans that sounds horrible!

But the Greeks have been pimping their country for over two millennia, and aren’t about to stop now.

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#153

Post by ewzimm » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 3:59 AM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #149

ewzimm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you might be mixing modalities. Considering that free will may be a pleasant deception doesn't necessarily lead to blaming externalities instead of changing a bad situation. The concept of blame as it is usually expressed depends on the belief in free will. The person whose free choices led to an outcome bears the greatest responsibility. Assigning blame to others is there…

personal responsibility for every outcome becomes a natural consequence I don't see how this works. The biggest reason is that if everyone is personally responsible then noone is responsible; this is pretty well established in psychology, with diffusion of responsibility.

People follow that trend differently. Strong believers in free will tend to be especially against collective responsibility or guilt. I also don't believe there's any evidence that ethical systems or religions that traditionally deny free will produce less responsible societies.

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#154

Post by coffeeling » Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

sweetdreamerit wrote: post #63

pfortuny wrote: post #8

This is one of the books that, until yo do read it, you think (because that is the “folklore wisdom”) will be a huge bore. Then it blows your mind, and you start to understand freedom.

Aristotle is difficult to read, for a number of reasons. The main one in my opinion is that it is so dense of inestimable content that I am overwhelmed at every paragraph.

Trying to get through the Ethics without taking notes is just self-sabotage and a fool's errand to begin with. It's really just work.

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#155

Post by sealthedeal » Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 1:48 AM UTC

JangoSteve wrote: post #134

sealthedeal wrote: post #133

My favorite course in college. An entire semester dedicated to Nicomachaen Ethics. Helped me think so much about what "happiness" truly is, and what type of a "virtuous" life one should lead to achieve maximum happiness.

Well don't leave us hanging. What's the answer?

I can tell you that a “political” life is one that doesn’t lead to happiness.

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#156

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, May 04, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

bladegash wrote: post #120

austincheney wrote: post #47

It’s been a very long time since i read this. The two things that really stuck with me (personal opinion): 1. Utility There are three levels of utility. Things whose use is only in service of something else are least valued. Things whose use is direct and not in service of something else are of highest value. Things whose use is of both something else and it’s own direct utility are of medium value. As an example a c…

This is kind of nit picky, but isn’t Jeremy Bentham typically credited as the founder of Utilitarianism? Not criticizing, genuinely curious as James Mills was barely mentioned when I took philosophy coursework.

Yes.

I wanted to say that Bentham was JSM's godfather, though I'm finding no specific mention of this. He was, at the very least, a very close friend of JSM's father James Mill and an extraordinarily strong influence on John Stuart (middle name itself having an interesting story) in education and development.

JSM himself was godfather to the godless Bertrand Russell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

https://www.winterwatch.net/2020/03/jeremy-bentham-british-e...

https://www.thoughtco.com/john-stuart-mill-male-feminist-353...

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#157

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, May 04, 2020, 12:06 AM UTC

antman wrote: post #39

I would like to suggest "History of Philosophy without any gaps" podcast website which explains in a rather complete way Philosophy in layman's terms. Everything is neatly organized (just check the top menu). Also it includes non western philosophy such as Avicenna's writings, its importance and relation to Aristotle's work. Here is ths relevant episode on Aristotelian ethics: https://historyofphilosophy.net/aristotl…

Very strongly seconded.

Especially if you're fond of giraffes, almond croissants, nonexistent sisters, and twin brothers.

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#158

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, May 04, 2020, 12:09 AM UTC

PebblesRox wrote: post #83

antman wrote: post #39

I would like to suggest "History of Philosophy without any gaps" podcast website which explains in a rather complete way Philosophy in layman's terms. Everything is neatly organized (just check the top menu). Also it includes non western philosophy such as Avicenna's writings, its importance and relation to Aristotle's work. Here is ths relevant episode on Aristotelian ethics: https://historyofphilosophy.net/aristotl…

And for fun, I recommend Existential Comics: https://existentialcomics.com/philosopher/Aristotle

More than just fun. EC's "freedom monster" is at least one original contribution. And topical to utilitarianism. and ethics.

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/259

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#159

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, May 04, 2020, 12:12 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #45

TeMPOraL wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read HN because not just that happens, but also the comments will usually provide several other insights or links of equal value!

Perhaps this is an idea for a bookmarklet: for any Wikipedia article, click on the bookmarklet and get the HN comments related to it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/bookmarklet.html

(Linked at the bottom of every HN page.)

Re: Nicomachean Ethics

#160

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, May 04, 2020, 12:16 AM UTC

salmo wrote: post #92

pyuser583 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Socrates and Aristotle both sound very anti-democratic. Thucydides explains why.

Reading Russel’s post WWII take on The Republic in A History of Western Philosophy is as close to taking a great class in college as I got after I was no longer in that setting. So many of those eye opening moments that make you reevaluate what you felt like you understand.

Quibble: HoWP was written and published during WWII.

Excellent, though.