List of oldest continuously inhabited cities • Hacker News Board

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#151

Post by lostlogin » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #62

Cyph0n wrote: post #36

As a Tunisian, I'm confused by why Carthage is not on the list. Yes, it was destroyed and rebuilt by the Romans, but the general vicinity has been continuously inhabited ever since. Actually, a few other Tunisian cities are missing that trace their origins back to late B.C./early A.D., such as Monastir, Mahdia, and El Jem. Any thoughts on this?

Marhabat. This particular list is pretty strict on the "continuous" criteria. I guess when the Romans plowed salt into it, continuity was broken, for the purposes of this list. Carthage does make this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_through... It was the world's biggest city circa 300BC.

I don’t think that the ‘ploughed salt’ approach is considered true anymore. The articles I want to link to are paywalled but there is a good discussion in the below reddit thread. The tldr is the salt was very expensive.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/269786

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/...

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#152

Post by owenversteeg » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

Giorgi wrote: post #111

owenversteeg wrote: post #34

What interests me the most is not so much the #1 oldest, but more those cities where the past is still visible, or the city is similar to the same one that stood there thousands of years ago. Specifically, I find Yerevan very interesting. If someone from 2,000 years ago stood there today, they'd certainly realize it was the same city: the same Mount Ararat towering over the city, the same river Hrazdan running by the…

Yeah, Georgia has way better artifacts than Armenia, for example: Vani, Mtskheta, Kutaisi, etc. For some reason Poti is missing from the list too.

Way better? I spent a week in both Georgia and Armenia recently and although I think the two counties are some of the coolest places I've been I found Armenia to be more interesting. That may have been because I had a local guide in Armenia though. (I like to travel with Couchsurfing as you get to meet and stay with locals, and for whatever reason Georgia is the only country I've visited where I couldn't find a host.)

In particular, I spent a day in Kutaisi and although it was a lovely little place I didn't find it super interesting.

I'll definitely be back though, I hadn't heard of Mtskheta and it seems really interesting, I'd like to check it out.

I assume you're Georgian, from the name :) Any other places you'd suggest to visit in Georgia? I personally prefer the really unusual/out of the way stuff myself.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#153

Post by viklove » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #5

reallydontask wrote: post #2

I like how Rome is listed as 753 BCE. A lot of guess work on these dates

Not only that, it's precisely the 21st of April, Rome's birthday just went by :)

Turns out Rome was built in a day. Specifically, the 21st of April.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#154

Post by Uhhrrr » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

dilippkumar wrote: post #137

c54 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn’t Indian history been better researched as you say? Curious about this.

I started studying Indian history and I immediately ran into problems. The first one is language - in the region I am interested in (the southern parts of India) - primary sources appear in several different languages. It's not sufficient to have passing familiarity with a language - a ton of these ancient writers were poets trying to out-do each other with their skills at crafting verses. To research Indian history,…

> Studying Indian history is hard.

But the way you write about it makes it sound fascinating, too! Could you recommend a couple good books in English?

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#155

Post by owenversteeg » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:07 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #145

owenversteeg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mm, but it's not just the towering Mount Ararat and the river of Hrazdan that make Yerevan obviously Yerevan. The name of the city has remained extremely similar for about 2,000 years, the language, the writing... Nice, in my opinion (I've only been there twice) has very little connection to the Nice of old. The geography is not very unique (travel the Mediterranean coast and I promise you you'll find plenty of place…

>I get much less of an "ancient" feeling there than anywhere in Armenia or Iran, for example. All the old town was blown up with dynamite within a few days during the 1940's...

Yeah, and it shows. Marseille feels more old fashioned, romantic, 1960s. If you take the TGV from Paris to Nice, Marseille is where you meet the beautiful Mediterranean and the train slows from 320km/h down to an average of 57 km/h.

Yerevan feels like 70% 1970s Soviet life, 20% ancient civilization, and 10% 2050 futurism. I'd love to find more places like it.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#156

Post by jgwil2 » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #150

DictumMortuum wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Born and raised Athenian here, oldest capital of Europe. Downtown Athens and most of the suburbs are filled with ancient and byzantine ruins, despite the damage that wars, christians and muslims did. I've watched plays in millennia old theaters. This is damn powerful.

I've always wondered how super old cities like Athens and Rome deal with infrastructure. I mean, if you need to install new sewer or cabling systems underground you're dealing with literally thousands of years of stuff under the city, and I'm guessing there is no good documentation for what's there. How do civil engineers know where it's safe to build?

They have to have archaeologists dig it all up first.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#157

Post by KhoomeiK » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

c54 wrote: post #109

TriNetra wrote: post #106

Indian history hasn't been well researched because of various reasons. However, recent efforts are pushing back continuous settlement dates by multi-thousand of years. For instance: Varanasi is in above wiki link with 1200 BC as inhabited since. However [0] pushes it back to at least 4500 BC. 0: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Varanasi-is... >>> The results that have come from a detailed geo-explorat…

Why hasn’t Indian history been better researched as you say? Curious about this.

Can't say much about recent history, but the deep archaeological past of India (>~5kya) is difficult to study in part because of the environmental conditions. The heat and humidity make preservation of artifacts over long periods of time nearly impossible, meaning that even though the Gangetic plain was one of the most populated regions on the planet for millennia in the past, there's minimal trace of this civilization left. Ancient tools, shelters, and human remains just decompose in that type of climate rather than being preserved like in the deserts of the Middle East or the cold regions of Northern China and Europe.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#158

Post by jgwil2 » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #80

mytailorisrich wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few of the cities of Ancient Greece and its colonies have survived to this day. Obviously Athens and many places in Greece but not only. For example in France, Marseille and Nice (both Greek colonies) are 2,600 and 2,300 years old, respectively. The first inhabitants would definitely recognise them immediately today from the unique landscape (like Yerevan). As for Puning, it's not so much related to China's r…

Mm, but it's not just the towering Mount Ararat and the river of Hrazdan that make Yerevan obviously Yerevan. The name of the city has remained extremely similar for about 2,000 years, the language, the writing... Nice, in my opinion (I've only been there twice) has very little connection to the Nice of old. The geography is not very unique (travel the Mediterranean coast and I promise you you'll find plenty of place…

Language is constantly changing. No one alive 2000 years ago would be able to readily communicate in a modern vernacular, so I don't think that's a good standard on which to judge.

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#159

Post by dilippkumar » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

Uhhrrr wrote: post #154

dilippkumar wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started studying Indian history and I immediately ran into problems. The first one is language - in the region I am interested in (the southern parts of India) - primary sources appear in several different languages. It's not sufficient to have passing familiarity with a language - a ton of these ancient writers were poets trying to out-do each other with their skills at crafting verses. To research Indian history,…

> Studying Indian history is hard. But the way you write about it makes it sound fascinating, too! Could you recommend a couple good books in English?

> good books

Unfortunately, I don't know any that I can recommend as being a "good" book (which is again part of the problem).

There are a couple of really dry academic books that you can read if you're sufficiently motivated -

1. The Cholas by K. A. Nilakanta Sastri https://www.amazon.com/Colas-Most-Comprehensive-Written-Chol...

2. Politics, Kingship and Poetry in Medieval South India by Whitney Cox https://www.amazon.com/Politics-Kingship-Poetry-Medieval-Sou...

3. South India under The Cholas by Y. Subbarayalu https://www.amazon.com/South-India-Under-Cholas-Subbarayalu/...

4. A History of South India: From Prehistoric Times to the Fall of Vijayanagar by K. A Nilakanta Sastri https://www.amazon.com/History-South-India-Prehistoric-Vijay...

Re: List of oldest continuously inhabited cities

#160

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #143

mytailorisrich wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few of the cities of Ancient Greece and its colonies have survived to this day. Obviously Athens and many places in Greece but not only. For example in France, Marseille and Nice (both Greek colonies) are 2,600 and 2,300 years old, respectively. The first inhabitants would definitely recognise them immediately today from the unique landscape (like Yerevan). As for Puning, it's not so much related to China's r…

>The first inhabitants would definitely recognise them immediately today from the unique landscape (like Yerevan). I doubt someone would recognize Marseille at first sight. If they looked hard enough they might recognize the harbour having vaguely the same shape and some mountains outside the city being the same. I actually annotated a drawing of Roman-era Marseille with the names of modern features a few years back…

The islands, hill next to the harbour, and hills around the city are quite unique and as visible now as they were then. The major change that has happened is that the trees are now all gone.

I'm thinking that the view looking to the south end of the city, with its striking hills, would be instantly recognised by any local from the Greek period.

I agree, though, that the harbour itself would most likely be unrecognisable, not only because of the extensive urbanisation but because the shape has been seriously remodelled.