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A theory of Zoom fatigue

theconvivialsociety.substack.com

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Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#151
As a full time remote worker, one of my favorite things about my setup is that I have a 43" 4k monitor set about 6 feet away from my eyes. I use macOS's scaling feature to make everything bigger. This has significantly reduced my eye strain and my overall fatigue.

My setup is somewhat unique, as far as I can tell. I have the monitor on a wheeled TV stand and I use a small hand cranked standing desk to support my laptop and keyboard. The laptop is connected to a dock that sits below the monitor with one Thunderbolt 3 cable, then I have one USB cable returning from the hub to the desk to support my microphone and keyboard.

This setup gives me a ton of flexibility in how I position myself relative to the light in the room and the distance between my eyes and the monitor while maintaining a standing position.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#152
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no compelling reason we couldn't have IP audio links (with an easy calling interface) that have no such compression artifacts. I would actually call it more of a noise gate issue perhaps trying to save bandwidth by maximizing the compressibility of quiet parts as if they're total silence, signal off. That kills the intimacy IMO. We've had it for so long now with digital cell phone calls, even HD calling, cert…

Is noise gating why you can't talk over each other? I am terrible at doing this (I think of it as synthesis - 2 excited ppl grabbing the idea, running with it, then the other interrupts and takes over) and while I acknowledge it's a bad behaviour, why do video calls or most digital audio ones not let it happen? I get there's delay so they can't exactly blend the two audio streams together, but what is this crazy limi…

Delay/latency is a totally separate issue that also has negative effects but not in a way that I would characterize as intimacy. Full duplex vs half duplex plays into it as I alluded: the symptom of half duplex is that the louder person "wins" temporary exclusivity which causes the quieter source to drop out in a way that isn't entirely different from what a noise gate does; the difference is that dropping out due to half duplex is based on the relative levels of the two sources and dropping out due to a noise gate is based on the absolute level of the source being above some determined noise threshold. Either way, all the dropouts where quiet becomes silent result in a lack of breath noise, saliva noise, the kind of laugh that manifests as just a bit of a strong nasal exhale, and plenty of other sounds. Think ASMR videos.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#153

Any other Autism Spectrum or ADHD people who feel less fatigued by video meetings compared to IRL? The things I like: - having the range of activity during a meeting constrained to one area in front of me so I don't have to look around the room to make sure I'm not missing something / get overstimulated by too much stuff happening. - Boxes with borders lighting up when someone is making noise / talking so I know wher…

I hate it. At least one person on our call has a background whine that he can't hear, but is constant. Other people have kids. At least once a call there's an echo event where someone puts their speakers too close to their mic. Trying to listen and understand what anyone is saying is difficult - I've nearly given up.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#154
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also played back a part of your own voice into your own earpiece, which helps make it sound like you’re in the same place. Zoom does not (at least AFAIK), so I have no way to judge if I’m speaking at an appropriate volume.

The best communication system I've ever used was the Clear-Com party line intercom in my high school's auditorium. The thing was older than me by at least 10 years. Hand assembled circuit boards in steel chassis. But: - The headsets were comfortable and practical. I have not seen anything sold for office or even gaming use begin to approach the ergonomics. Plantronic, Logitech, none of it. - Every headset had foldbac…

> It's absolutely astounding to me just how much better these systems are than their nearest alternatives 30+ years later.

FWIW, what you're describing is achievable with a decent audio interface, something like the AT BPHS1/BPHS2, and some cough/mute switches. My travel rig for video has full direct monitoring/sidetone for up to eight microphones/headsets, including wireless transmitters if I need to go that route; it's fantastic.

The current state of affairs for normal people is as bad as it is because normal people don't care.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#155
post #6

I don't know about those theories. I suspect something else. Do you remember landlines, and how responsive they were? You would say things back and fourth and the conversation just worked, even on three-way and conference calls? There was very little noticeable lag! Even in the early cellphone days, I'd often prefer using my landline. There was less lag. Cellphones felt like speakerphones where it tries to do that ca…

I would go further

- yes lag, having to deal with delays and jump in at the right time is fatiguing

- audio - auto-muting, inexact codecs, compression artifacts, bad echo cancellation

- small screen, and mismatched eyes

- there is also etiquette.

inadvertent - people who talk too loud or don't understand the lag or don't notice their drop outs

should-know-better - people who use speakerphone and inflict it on people who deal with headsets to give others good sound. or carry their devices moving

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#156

Any other Autism Spectrum or ADHD people who feel less fatigued by video meetings compared to IRL? The things I like: - having the range of activity during a meeting constrained to one area in front of me so I don't have to look around the room to make sure I'm not missing something / get overstimulated by too much stuff happening. - Boxes with borders lighting up when someone is making noise / talking so I know wher…

I hate it. At least one person on our call has a background whine that he can't hear, but is constant. Other people have kids. At least once a call there's an echo event where someone puts their speakers too close to their mic. Trying to listen and understand what anyone is saying is difficult - I've nearly given up.

Those ppl should be at the very least muting when they are not talking. I recommend using a push to talk app - I like https://mizage.com/shush/

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#157
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also played back a part of your own voice into your own earpiece, which helps make it sound like you’re in the same place. Zoom does not (at least AFAIK), so I have no way to judge if I’m speaking at an appropriate volume.

The best communication system I've ever used was the Clear-Com party line intercom in my high school's auditorium. The thing was older than me by at least 10 years. Hand assembled circuit boards in steel chassis. But: - The headsets were comfortable and practical. I have not seen anything sold for office or even gaming use begin to approach the ergonomics. Plantronic, Logitech, none of it. - Every headset had foldbac…

> - The signal was so clear, and the mics were so good, that as long as you enunciated you could speak just a hair above a whisper and be reliably understood. I remember analog PSTN voice, and this was 10x better. Might have to do with less aggressive EQ.

OTOH everyone on a Web video chat always sounds like they're YELLING. Even if the volume's turned down, the tone registers as yelling. Having those happening nearby with regularity, even behind a (thin) wall, is about as bad as the proverbial open-office-seated-near-sales situation.

I think people talk louder on cell phones than they did on old analog land lines, too.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#158
post #6

I don't know about those theories. I suspect something else. Do you remember landlines, and how responsive they were? You would say things back and fourth and the conversation just worked, even on three-way and conference calls? There was very little noticeable lag! Even in the early cellphone days, I'd often prefer using my landline. There was less lag. Cellphones felt like speakerphones where it tries to do that ca…

I feel like you've hit the nail on the head. I remember growing up; I'd have long conversations on the landline and it never really felt burdensome.

With Zoom, Facetime etc, it's hard to gauge who's talking to who. Side conversations within groups are impossible. You also can't get a feel over another person's body language.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#159
post #6

I don't know about those theories. I suspect something else. Do you remember landlines, and how responsive they were? You would say things back and fourth and the conversation just worked, even on three-way and conference calls? There was very little noticeable lag! Even in the early cellphone days, I'd often prefer using my landline. There was less lag. Cellphones felt like speakerphones where it tries to do that ca…

I suspect you're actually misidentifying the culprit.

Lag is generally not noticeable on cellphones, and lag has always been a problem with landlines on long-distance (especially far-international) calls.

What you're describing "like a walkie-talkie" is actually the difference between half-duplex and full-duplex.

Landlines are full-duplex, and cell phones were notoriously bad half-duplex... until 4G which is considered full-duplex. There's also the issue of carriers muting audio completely when it's under a certain threshold, which makes them less responsive, because you have to ask "are you there?" every so often.

Videoconferencing latency is a separate issue, because there's one central server for each meeting, so if it's between the NY and SF office, the server may be in SF, so two separate NY participants get double the latency talking to each other than they do talking to SF. But, everybody hears the same audio.

You might say, well why don't they select a server in the middle of the country for that call then? But selecting an optimal server location for a videoconferencing call is difficult, even if you have access to cloud locations all over the country/world, because you usually don't know in advance who's going to join the call. So whoever hosts the call or whoever's the first participant, the server is often chosen to simply be whichever one is closest to them, which can sometimes be quite suboptimal once everyone's joined. (And I sure wouldn't want to be the one to write code for switching servers mid-call.)

Also, videoconferencing is much closer to "half-duplex" because if you were always mixing everyone's audio together, it would be a noisy mess.

But in conclusion -- latency/delay isn't a significant new problem that digital networks have introduced. It's always been there, but duplex, silence thresholds, and conference calls are the more important factors to pay attention to.

Re: A theory of Zoom fatigue

#160
post #41
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landlines were so fast and so "direct" in their latency (where distance correlates very directly with time, due to a lack of "hops") that local phone calls were faster than the speed of sound across a table, and for a bit after they came out--before people generally got used to seemingly random latency--local calls felt "intimate", like as if you were talking to someone in bed with their head right next to you; I als…

I have very clear memories of my first overseas long-distance calls in the 1980s, which were over a satellite link. The latency was so pronounced (about half a second) that carrying out a conversation took quite a bit of practice. You almost had to carry out a formal protocol of handing over control of the line, as if you were on a walkie-talkie. I have equally clear memories of my first overseas calls carried by und…

In the early 1990s I was sharing a flat in Edinburgh with a guy who's dad was working in Nigeria. The delay was routinely 4-5 seconds, which almost always took us a frustrating 30 seconds or so to sort out while we went backwards and forwards, both saying "no, you start" at the same time, leading to 10 seconds of silence, then both starting again...
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