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Shirt Without Stripes

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Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#151

Post by kempbellt »

cosmojg wrote: post #102
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #74

https://www.google.com/search?q=plain+shirt https://www.amazon.com/s?k=plain+shirt on edit: https://www.google.com/search?q=shirt+-stripes

Ah, but you see, he specifically wants a shirt without stripes as dialectically opposed to a shirt with stripes. A plain shirt just won't do. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJVsaxoQSw

Strangely, in the context of the "Coffee without cream" example given in the video, I can see it possibly interpreted as "Coffee, with cream on the side, but not in it - I'll pour it myself". It's a stretch of assumption, but depending on culture, it could make sense.

"Shirt without stripes" is harder to imagine it meaning "strips on the side. I'll add them myself".

Language is ever so complicated and contextual.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#152

Post by jjeaff »

Saaster wrote: post #130
bentona wrote: post #28

To me, the most interesting implication here is that this must not adversely affect Google's ad revenue. If it did, they would surely fix it. This, in turn, means that apparently we have been trained to interface with search engines such that this is not a problem. Sometimes I wonder how much my brain has changed to use search engines / how much of it is dedicated to effective googling. Makes me feel like a cyborg.

That sounds like an ad business version of the efficient market theory. E.g, that can't possibly be a hundred dollar bill on the ground, because if it was someone else would surely already have picked it up by now. I think you're overestimating Google's sophistication.

Exactly. And how would Google know whether this would improve add recenue? They have never created and tested it.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#153

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

seiferteric wrote: post #137

I have noticed in the past few years google results have become noticeable worse for similar reasons. Google used to _surprise_ me with how good it was able to understand what I was really looking for even when I put in vague terms. I remember being shocked on several occasions when putting in half remembered sentences, lyrics, expressions from something I had heard years ago and it being the first! result. I almost…

I suspect their job has gotten way harder. It's easy to forget that they aren't just passively indexing. The web is basically google's adversary, with every page trying to be top ranked regardless of whether it "should" be.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#154

Post by bryanrasmussen »

I think, looking at shirt without stripes and shirt with out stripes in Google images, that without is decompounded, which then ends up giving you shirt with stripes, however the slight difference between the two searches "shirt without stripes" and "shirt with out stripes" is that the there are some exact hits mixed in also, so there are some results for "shirt without stripes" mixed in with the decompounded query.

Just my theory.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#155

Post by bcoates »

bentona wrote: post #28

To me, the most interesting implication here is that this must not adversely affect Google's ad revenue. If it did, they would surely fix it. This, in turn, means that apparently we have been trained to interface with search engines such that this is not a problem. Sometimes I wonder how much my brain has changed to use search engines / how much of it is dedicated to effective googling. Makes me feel like a cyborg.

What exactly would happen if it was a material negative impact on their revenue and they didn't fix it?

If Google isn't under survival pressure to get better (and they aren't) the incentives aren't aligned for them to improve or even to not get worse every year.

If Google is failing first gradually then suddenly it might not even be within the institutional power to notice how bad it's become before it's too late.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#156

Post by shanecleveland »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #114
shanecleveland wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because google does understand that no and without are interchangeable. But, understandably, it does not correlate "shirt without stripes" as being the same thing as "solid-colored shirts." Why, because no one advertises or describes a solid-colored shirt as a shirt without stripes and no one searches that way. It's an irrelevant point, in my opinion.

my point was that this very web page on HN got to top of Google search in 42 minutes or less on this search term ''' Shirt Without Stripes | Hacker Newsnews.ycombinator.com › item 42 mins ago - The point that the author is making, in a very understated way, is that all three companies have PR websites that breathlessly describe their ... '''

Sorry. I meant the assumed point of the OP.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#158

Post by aiven »

nmstoker wrote: post #86
devy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's result is noticeably better though. :)

You mean more stylish?!

He probably meant "more spicier". Second image for "now one with stripped this time please" yielded image that is linked to article about deep-fake nudes.

Re: Shirt Without Stripes

#160

Post by softwaredoug »

In search we know it’s easy to cherry pick queries and criticize any search engine. A search engine is optimizing for billions of queries. Most of which are on the long tail.

The real question is “shirts without stripes” really a query people enter? Or representative of a real pattern in the data?

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