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New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

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Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#151

I was sort of tempted to pursue this. I did a few years in the salty COBOL mines back when I was a PFY about 20...plus years ago. This niche probably hasn't moved very much since then and I could probably recall most of it after a few hours. I'm freelancing right now anyway and some other projects just vaporized. But. A quick skim of the postings is finding that what they're really screaming for is somebody who's bee…

They aren't asking for so much. They want:

1. understanding the language (COBOL)

2. IBM mainframe experience (JCL, DB2, VSAM, SDLC)

3. credentialed (4-year degree)

Note that SDLC is a layer 2 network protocol in the SNA stack:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_Data_Link_Control

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t be surprised if this position then goes to an H1B contractor though. If enough anericans who have this knowledge do not apply because they - Hate the tech - Can’t provide their feedback to improve the system - Don’t like the salary offered even if’s greater than their current unemployment income, then is it for an offshore company to come in and fill that gap.

Which popular H1B source countries teach COBOL? I feel like the advent of cheap offshore programming came well after the decline of COBOL. Though my sense of history can very well be off.

A lot of Indian degree courses teach COBOL for exactly this reason.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#153
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apt search cobol found this. open-cobol/bionic 1.1-2 amd64 COBOL compiler Also, I was hoping to find COBOL on learnxinyminutes.com, but didn't :/

That's not really going to give you a taste for what it's like to "do" COBOL in a real-world scenario. Realistically, no one is running COBOL on a modern Linux. They're running it on something like z/OS and there is so much utterly bizarre and incredibly tedious stuff you have to deal with on those mainframe OS's that you'll run away screaming. And that's not even mentioning the code itself, written over several deca…

That's not entirely true, a lot of people have migrated across to, for example, Microfocus COBOL, which runs on Linux and Windows.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#154
post #11
post #4

How hard is cobol to pick up and learn at the level needed to contribute? I'm sure there are many no longer employed programmers in the tri state area that might be able to help

I didnt find it too hard, I played with it a little in the IBM master the mainframe challenge. The hardest part for me, is IO was not handled by the application, so all your file IO was setup by the JCL job that called the cobol program, which just feels weird. It's actually quite easy to read, and much closer to plain english than say, C.

They came to my computer science course to pitch that challenge. I got as far as logging in to the mainframe and doing the first task before I stopped and thought “wtf am I doing? Why am I wasting time on this!”

Despite this story and others, still think I made the right call for me!

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime I see COBOL, I always think of Newman from Jurassic Park and imagine that is a stereotypical COBOL programmer haha! If you see any bosses with a weird scarf, back away cause they may spit corona-acid in your face!

That film's horrible misrepresentation of UNIX almost ruined it for me.

How exactly? Versus something like CSI, Jurassic Park got a lot of things right. The computers used were real SGI SPARCStations and they had a bunch of Thinking Machines CM-5s for gene sequencing in the background shots. I believe all of the on-screen shots were done with real Irix software (including the scene where they locked the doors, which was done using a real IRIX file manager called "fsn").

Sure it was given the Hollywood treatment, but it'd be pretty boring if they didn't.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#156

I was sort of tempted to pursue this. I did a few years in the salty COBOL mines back when I was a PFY about 20...plus years ago. This niche probably hasn't moved very much since then and I could probably recall most of it after a few hours. I'm freelancing right now anyway and some other projects just vaporized. But. A quick skim of the postings is finding that what they're really screaming for is somebody who's bee…

Don’t be surprised if this position then goes to an H1B contractor though. If enough anericans who have this knowledge do not apply because they - Hate the tech - Can’t provide their feedback to improve the system - Don’t like the salary offered even if’s greater than their current unemployment income, then is it for an offshore company to come in and fill that gap.

And that's why most American programmers hate H1B. It's not about filling jobs that we don't have the skill for, it's about filling jobs that companies don't want to spend money on. Offer a half mil a year, and watch how many qualified Americans come out of the woodwork.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works with a lot of state IT people, if they don't know how to hire programmers, they probably don't know how to manage programmers. In a bureaucracy, if the administrators are making these kinds of unrealistic hiring demands in a crisis, it probably means that the administrators outrank all programmers and don't trust them to make their own decisions. This is not an environment to work in.

This is a crisis, not a normal time. Fixing this system will make the difference between real people getting unemployment checks or nothing. That's worth enduring a bad boss for.

They'll change their tune when they won't be able to find anyone. The free market is as honest as it gets. If you underpay and undertreat your employees, they will seek an alternative. It is simple opportunity cost.

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#158
post #4

How hard is cobol to pick up and learn at the level needed to contribute? I'm sure there are many no longer employed programmers in the tri state area that might be able to help

The thing about old COBOL systems is, the language isn't the problem. Snark aside, it isn't that bad. The major issue is the code written in it. Remember, a lot of COBOL code comes from a time before a lot of programming best practices were discovered. Structured programming-- as in, actually having function calls instead of just GOTO statements everywhere-- was a novel hoity-toity concept when COBOL first existed. R…

Come on now. That kind of go to programming was primarily pre- 1980 (remember the Alter verb - pretty powerful and used a lot in the late ‘60‘s/early ‘70’s). Ha! Alter was used to Change a goto statement to go somewhere else. I only saw it where the key driver paragraphs only had one instruction, the goto. That was before goto depending on existed in the ANSI instruction set. But that stuff was wasshed out when new compilers no longer get supported the verb. Point is, languages aren’t static, they grow and change as do programming practices.

I saw another post claim that COBOL programs primarily used flat files and had no concept of ISAM/VSAM/DB2 or relational constructs. Nothing could be further from the truth! In the late ‘70’s COBOL became the primary langauge for processing in CICS or IMS real time transactions. Flat fileS, eh. Ha

Youdon structured design was introduced about 1976 and 1977 - by 1980 only the very smallest IT shops weren’t coding in compliance with structured programming standard that did not allow goto’s. A programmer was unlikely to find a job in a good shop without structured coding experience.

Given New Jersey only began constructing applications in the 1980’s, then evolved for 30+ years - it is very likely most of the code containing go to’s and like code that were difficult to maintain were updated and rewritten in conjunction with other enhancements. Major enhancement projects were often used to fund rewrites in this manner. I am not saying New Jersey did this, I am saying any competently managed IT organization would have done this because that was considered best practices.

Let someone who has actually examined the code tell us how bad it actually is. Heck, if they are really an SDLC shop, there may actually be documentation! Lol

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#159
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really going to give you a taste for what it's like to "do" COBOL in a real-world scenario. Realistically, no one is running COBOL on a modern Linux. They're running it on something like z/OS and there is so much utterly bizarre and incredibly tedious stuff you have to deal with on those mainframe OS's that you'll run away screaming. And that's not even mentioning the code itself, written over several deca…

My way of learning and exploring something new (to me) is to ignore the bizarre and tedious system specific stuff that you mention. I have never even seen COBOL code before. Toy programs that I can easily run on my own computer are more than enough to satisfy my casual (and short-lived) curiosity.

https://kurthaeusler.wordpress.com/2016/11/16/learning-the-m...

Re: New Jersey needs COBOL programmers for their unemployment claims system

#160

This is all second-hand, etc., but from what I've heard, NJ's IT systems are a mess across the board. The most shocking story was about their system for tracking Medicaid patients. Their system had a fixed-width field for the patient's ID, and they ran out of identifiers - so they just started to recycle them again from the beginning. This problem was multiplied by the fact that, to say money, they didn't have backup…

hope they print those recycled record out!
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