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Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

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Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#151

Post by yuanqili »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #84
hatenberg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mindset and the ideological blinders it introduces is a huge problem. When china went aggressive on the virus people looked at it as draconian measures because of the ideological lens, not looking further to see the measures were absolutely necessary by scientific fact. When Singapore started to spring into action, the western press was musing about election posturing all the while nobody prepared. Ideology kill…

> When china went aggressive on the virus people looked at it as draconian measures because of the ideological lens, not looking further to see the measures were absolutely necessary by scientific fact. None of this would have been necessary if the doctors reporting the Wuhan virus weren’t killed for presenting bad news. There’s clear evidence that the Chinese waited far too long to start acting and alerting others.…

Yes China is too slow. First case in December and few dozen cases in January then lockdown. If China had a great president from the free world like mr Donald Trump, then they could act much more quickly and shutdown the whole country since day one. I remember Mr. Trump has an uncle who was a professor at MIT, so that he could understand the seriousness of COVID19. Make China Great Again!

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#152

Post by lioeters »

undersuit wrote: post #142
lioeters wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to an article on Quora, "At What Temperature Do Viruses Die?" ¹, for what it's worth: > All [known] strains of virus can be inactivated at 70 °C. For reference, an autoclave used for sterilization is around 121 °C. > A minimum temperature range to inactivate most virus is 48°C to 60°C. Some virus still able to survive at temperature below 60°C e.g. adenoviruses(dsDNA naked virus) relatively thermostable, it…

Viruses exist where there is life, it's not a mound I'm willing to die on, but it's accurate here on Earth. There is life that lives in temperatures higher than 70 °C, therefore there are viruses that can survive in temperatures higher than 70 °C: http://www.rcn.montana.edu/Publications/Pdf/2005/4_18Young.p...

Thank you, I stand corrected! Please everyone disregard my previous comment and find a more reliable source of facts.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#153

Post by Marsymars »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #90
chmod775 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was looking for information on (high) killing viruses They're not really alive, so they can't be killed. But you can destroy vital parts of them and make them unable to reproduce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%2...

It’s controversial. Some would characterize viruses as alive (because they replicate and evolve). So it’s fair to say that you can kill them (prevent from replicating). Debating the semantics of this is not helpful.

And in the non-controversial case - i.e. prions, people generally don't use the term "kill", they use the term "deactivate".

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#154

Post by Marsymars »

aaavl2821 wrote: post #127
ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

That is a misleading statement. The CDC has in fact changed its recommendations to recommend in a crises, even HCPs use home-made masks [0] Health care providers, scientists and health officials are rapidly changing and adapting to the situation. It probably is a good idea for all people to wear homemade / improvised masks to reduce R0 But I'd still hope that civilians with large stores of N95 masks or other PPE woul…

> But I'd still hope that civilians with large stores of N95 masks or other PPE would consider donating them to healthcare workers.

I was at Home Depot today and was surprised to see N95 masks available, though limited in number per customer.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#155

Post by Marsymars »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #116
shademaan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence the average Chinese person is "much more capable" than the average American. And the Chinese were evidently not "diligent" enough to shut down wet markets despite years of repeated warnings from epidemiologists, nor were these civil servants forthright enough about what was happening fast enough to prevent spreading this illness to other countries. Stereotypes in either direction are dangerous, u…

Chinese Americans objectively have better SAT and ACT scores (so much so that they get screwed by affirmative action policies) Maybe Chinese themselves aren't "more capable" but the Chinese elite who can get to America and likely the Chinese elite who stay in China are certainly "more capable" They have a collectivist culture with "tiger parents" who force kids to study far harder than the average throughout the non…

I expect you'll be hard-pressed to convince people that SAT and ACT scores are predictive at anything other than taking SAT or ACT tests unless you're controlling for an equal amount of study effort.

Basically Goodhart's law.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#156

Post by taeric »

fspeech wrote: post #149
taeric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would need testing to show they don't have a prevalence of "mild" cases. Not to mention we should have numbers on how often they wear masks. Last I saw, it was not everyone that did that. Edit for reference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ

80% compliance would eliminate flu outbreaks and flu is upper respiratory. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30229968 The New Yorker article we are supposedly discussing literally says the coronavirus is not very efficient even in hospital settings. I am familiar with crowded trains in East Asia. Your video does not have time marker so I assume it is not taken recently.

I assume not recent either. If there is a recent one, I'm interested.

I posted that as evidence masks have not always been worn by everyone.

I'm confused on your 80% compliance number. Are you saying Japanese get 80% compliance on things, and by extension don't have flu outbreaks?

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#157

Post by angrais »

brigandish wrote: post #94
MikeAmelung wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of possibilities I've been thinking about: The virus has been in Italy for a lot longer than they think, and they get close to each other/have actual contact a lot (I don't know if that's actually true, I've never been to Italy) Maybe they mostly have a particular mutation that is more deadly/infectious

Don't discount the possibility that figures are being massaged in various ways. One is the obvious lack of widespread testing. Another is the reports of people with symptoms being turned away. Then there are the kodokushi [0] numbers which are a clue to how the government already deals with uncomfortable mortality figures - let alone those kudokushi who may die because of the virus - and a over a million deaths a yea…

When saying kodokushi, why not just say "old people that die alone"?

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#158

Post by jtdev »

wbl wrote: post #43
makomk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Something ridiculous like 95% of surgical masks and 75% of N95 masks are normally imported from China, because theirs were slightly cheaper. Almost all of them have been diverted to domestic use. Now the US, with almost no manufacturing capabilities, has doctors and nurses who are forced to use dubious improvised masks whilst China increases its international influence by selling a small fraction of its output…

3M is in Minnesota. There was no effort to make more masks in the months we had. This is entirely a failure of government at all levels.

Does 3M actually manufacture masks in Minnesota, or anywhere in the U.S. for that matter? Or do they simply buy masks from a white-labeler overseas?

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#159

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jtdev wrote: post #158
wbl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3M is in Minnesota. There was no effort to make more masks in the months we had. This is entirely a failure of government at all levels.

Does 3M actually manufacture masks in Minnesota, or anywhere in the U.S. for that matter? Or do they simply buy masks from a white-labeler overseas?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M -:

3M's general offices, corporate research laboratories, and some division laboratories in the US are in St. Paul, Minnesota. In the United States, 3M operates 80 manufacturing facilities in 29 states, and 125 manufacturing and converting facilities in 37 countries outside the US (in 2017).[66]

I don’t believe 3M would buy white-label products, they employ several hundred research scientists and have invented countless original products / innovations.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#160

Post by jtdev »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #159
jtdev wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does 3M actually manufacture masks in Minnesota, or anywhere in the U.S. for that matter? Or do they simply buy masks from a white-labeler overseas?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M -: 3M's general offices, corporate research laboratories, and some division laboratories in the US are in St. Paul, Minnesota. In the United States, 3M operates 80 manufacturing facilities in 29 states, and 125 manufacturing and converting facilities in 37 countries outside the US (in 2017).[66] I don’t believe 3M would buy white-label products, they employ several hundred resear…

Quote from a Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal article related to the mask manufacturing ramp up at 3M for COVID19:

“‘We're seeing increased demand for our respiratory protection products, and we're ramping up our production worldwide, in China, around the world to meet that demand.’ (Mike Roman, 3M CEO)” [0]

Nothing about that statement gives me any confidence that a single 3M N95 mask is produced in the U.S. In fact, it sounds downright evasive to me.

[0] https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2020/01/29/3ms-c...

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