Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you show me how you calculated the 3 trillion dollar cost? Are you for example counting loans to businesses as if none will be paid back? Are we talking about the economic impact or direct costs or both? To be clear the UK has 29 million workers who make an average of 28k pounds. If 60% of them are off work and can't work from home paying 80% of that wage to 60% of them would appear to cost about 32 billion pound…
She had an pre-existing condition: compromised immunity after a stage 4 cancer.
UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
151–160 of 183 posts
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is about helping people in need and not a gift from government.
Whether you call it a gift or not doesn't change that it's functionally a penalty on working.
Millions of people lost their jobs and can't feed their family untill quarantine is over. Do you want riots in the middle of a pandemic?
Get your head out of your ass.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#153This makes more sense for me than sending $1000 checks to people who still have a job.
Not to me. Just sending out money to everyone is simple . It can be done fast .
You might be right, but it's not obvious that the difference is material.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#154First remote work, now UBI: Covid-19 is planting the seeds that both are possible and can be beneficial to society in the future.
Microsoft Teams is okay but hopefully there will be better tools for this market.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#155And people keep saying that basic income is impossible. This is an astonishing U-turn, and a very welcome one. I just hope the social distancing isn't too late.
I keep enough food in my pantry so I can keep eating for a week or two without going to the store. the fact that I have a buffer to draw on doesn't mean I can keep eating forever without going to the store.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#156Notably this now leaves a gaping self employed person shaped hole in the otherwise impressively woven safety net.
Yes but they have increased universal credit amounts substantially, that will go some way to close the gap.
I don't think that is true.
They've increased UC by £20 a week. To our USA friends that is USD $23.30 a week.
I don't think that counts as substantial. It is barely going to touch the gap.
Almost nobody who was working last month self-employed is likely to be able to afford their rent and bills, or even just their family food bill, on UC going forward.
While on UC, in theory you can also get your rent paid. But only if you are renting somewhere substantially below the median market rate for the area.
Since the area is assessed over quite a large region, that means virtually everyone in a decent city has a rent level higher than is covered anywhere in the city, and people are normally required to move to the edges or beyond (or often into dodgy accomodation that would fail inspections).
But people cannot move now.
They can change their eating patterns, and refuse to pay bills (but watch out because debt collactors still have their jobs, and credit files are still recording).
And full tenants can stop paying rent, and avoid eviction. But watch out because when protective measures stop, evictions will resume because people will not be able to pay the backlog of debt. Especially if the landlord sees it as an opportunity to refurbish and raise the rent (I've seen this happen, find an excuse to get rid of the current tenant then add a 25% rent hike in the ad for the next one).
Worse than that: If evicted (eventually) due to substantial non-payment of rent, in normal times people struggle to find another landlord that will accept them aftwards, because landlords may contact a previous landlord for a reference.
But tenants can't move to a cheaper home suddenly, especially not all at once, and with no money or drivers to move everything.
(And lodgers, who are tenants living in someone's home with the landlord, are still not protected from eviction under current measures as far as I can tell. They are covered by different rules than tenancies, have few rights, are highly vulnerable if the landlord wants them gone. Notice can be as little as 1 week. There are a lot of lodgers in the UK.)
If there was rent deferral of some kind that would help. (Ideally where the government pays the rent so the landlord does not know the state of the tenants finances.) But the government has, currently, said no to direct help for renters. They have tweaked the housing allowance, but only by a small amount so it still doesn't cover the rent for the majority of people in suddenly changed circumstances.
And even with all benefits added up, it's still much less than the 80% that most salaried people are getting.
Self-employed are looking awfully screwed at the moment.
And people who got made redundant just recently are also getting a rough deal, unless they are lucky to have an employer who undoes the redundancy somehow.
Those people are unlikely to be able to get a personal loan to cover their shortfalls either. Many with already bad credit rating will get "computer says no", but those with good credit have a problem too: After passing the rating, they will be asked for proof of income, because it's the law in the UK since a few years ago that lenders must get that proof. Which people suddenly without jobs cannot provide.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Debt is just consuming now what we will produce later. That means that later we will have less. Luckily, the number which tells us how much it costs to shift production temporally: the real interest rate, is low. As a result, we can deal with the impact over the course of decades. As long as there is no crisis of confidence in the ability to repay that debt, it will not be an issue.
> Luckily, the number which tells us how much it costs to shift production temporally: the real interest rate, is low. That measure has been meaningless for a long time now since the central banks manipulate it for whatever goal they are currently trying to achieve. With the amount of uncertainty in the current economic climate if interest rates were set by the market they would be skyhigh as nobody would risk loanin…
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#158Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can assure you if tomorrow we woke up and the world was 2 degrees hotter and people were dying left right and centre from it, the same thing would have happened with climate change. > Average age lets say 79 as the virus progresses No idea what you're on about. Most people in the UK don't even make it to 79 as is, nevermind with a highly contagious and dangerous virus floating about. > Instead the Uk seems to be wi…
> I can assure you if tomorrow we woke up and the world was 2 degrees hotter and people were dying left right and centre from it, the same thing would have happened with climate change. That’s the point he’s making though, we’re overcommitting resources to this problem because we can see it. Once climate change is apparent enough for people to panic, it’ll be too late. > Thousands of people are already dying from thi…
Secondly, let's do this mental experiment, let the disease spread - how do you expect society to function, nevermind economy, if ~5 % of the population is dying of pneumonia and 30% are severely ill. I doubt you'll be able to get served as Starbucks.
Re: UK government to pay up to 80% of wages for employees not working
#160Has anyone calculated the value of life that we are saving here? The Imperial College report had 510,000 dying in the UK under a no-action scenario. Average age lets say 79 as the virus progresses. 510,000 * (82.5-79) * GBP 30,000 (QALY for the NHS) = 53.5 billion pounds based on the funding methodology used for the NHS. Instead the Uk seems to be willing to throw its entire GDP at this problem, 3 trillion pounds. Th…
> but not Climate Change, Obesity, Air Pollution, How does Climate Change directly kills people now ? In its most catastrophic failure in the future, it will. But we still have time to fix it. Obesity is a Choice. I have never heard of people getting Obesity in third world countries where they dont even have enough food. Air Pollution may shorten our life spans, but its origin also improves our quality of living and…
Preventing climate change is a fantasy. Sont take it from me, watch Bill Gates discuss the topic.