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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#151

Post by mft_ »

dean177 wrote: post #138
mft_ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tortured? I mean, some of what you describe is unpalatable, unpleasant, and maybe (IANAL) contrary to expected standards of the treatment of prisoners... but tortured ?

"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession" Yes, it is exactly torture. https://apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/

Again, probably depends on which aspects of his treatment you're referring to.

The original quote spoke of "twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells" - which is unpleasant treatment, but probably not hugely different from the treatment of many prisoners, fairly regularly, within our dehumanising criminal justice system. And I don't think it would constitute torture, per your definition.

That said, as another commenter added, he's apparently been in solitary confinement [for up to 23 hours a day[0] ] in a high category prison for a year. This sounds pretty awful, and much closer to a definition of "torture". That said, it's hard to know: maybe prisoners of his nature are routinely interned in Belmarsh? And maybe being in your cell for 23 hours a day is routine for prisoners in Belmarsh?

Would be interesting to know why it's taken a year for his case to be heard, though.

[0] https://inews.co.uk/news/julian-assange-solitary-confinement...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#152

Post by pinkfoot »

reallydontask wrote: post #149
_iyig wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have you been downvoted? You are correct. This extradition hearing, and the alleged mistreatment of Mr. Assange, is taking place in London under British authorities.

if we are splitting hairs, it's not England but the United Kingdom

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

:)

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#153

Post by thinkingemote »

mft_ wrote: post #94
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

Tortured? I mean, some of what you describe is unpalatable, unpleasant, and maybe (IANAL) contrary to expected standards of the treatment of prisoners... but tortured ?

It may not be "enhanced interrogation" but...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#154

Post by lolc »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #26
bilekas wrote: post #15

This is always going to happen when you go about doing what he did in such a flamboyant way. I agree that he was by no means an angel, but I also see the reasons why the governments want to set an example. People have this idea that it's a terrible thing if their governments have secrets.. It's normal.. That doesn't justify this treatment of him. By any means, one would think he would be treated well in public. > Is…

Yes he's being made an example of. He brazenly broke the (unwritten) rules and this is an educational beatdown[1]. It will end badly for Assange, because two of the "three cases where the EBD may be dangerous" (see linked article) apply. Whether Assange is 'in the right' or not, #1 will still apply to him. [1] https://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/03/cofv10-education...

That was an interesting read. Let's make it clear to the "educational beatdown" people that we don't agree!

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#155

Post by jjgreen »

joosters wrote: post #87
mcv wrote: post #34

That judge does not exactly come across as impartial in this description. I'm not a lawyer, but it does look like a mistrial of some sort. Whatever you think of Julian Assange, he deserves a fair trial, and this doesn't sound like he's getting one.

The problem is, from the very first paragraph, this website doesn't come across as anything close to impartial either. So I'd suggest you find some more sources before you criticize the judge.

The courtroom has 14 seats for the public and press, so don't expect that many sources ...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#156

Post by einpoklum »

mnem wrote: post #31
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

A quick search using Google news in the UK shows that all the main broadsheets and many of the tabloids have Assange related stories over the past several days at least. I don’t think it’s fair to characterise the media as disinterested.

A prominent journalist has been locked up in Belmarsh prison in harsh condition for months. Even if there was some coverage now, it's still massively undercovered. That should have been on the news just about every day or two - as a form of news media self-defense if nothing else. Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody.

Not to mention the under-coverage during his years in effective imprisonment by the UK in the Ecuadorian embassy.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#157

Post by k1m »

mft_ wrote: post #131
anonsivalley652 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year is torture, cruel, and unjust for a simple, nonviolent skipping bail charge. This sort of thing should've been 2 months at a minimum security prison in genpop at the most. This is purely political persecution by British toadies of American hegemony. If you can't see any of this, then you are blind.

Thanks for your informative (and measured) response. To clarify, I'm no expert on the Assange case, and was responding to the previous commenter, whose account didn't mention solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year . If that is indeed the case, I'd agree it sounds pretty awful.

Here's what Nils Melzer the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture had to say:

> Question: At what point does imprisonment become torture?

> Nils Melzer: Julian Assange has been intentionally psychologically tortured by Sweden, Britain, Ecuador and the U.S. First through the highly arbitrary handling of proceedings against him. The way Sweden pursued the case, with active assistance from Britain, was aimed at putting him under pressure and trapping him in the embassy. Sweden was never interested in finding the truth and helping these women, but in pushing Assange into a corner. It has been an abuse of judicial processes aimed at pushing a person into a position where he is unable to defend himself. On top of that come the surveillance measures, the insults, the indignities and the attacks by politicians from these countries, up to and including death threats. This constant abuse of state power has triggered serious stress and anxiety in Assange and has resulted in measurable cognitive and neurological harm. I visited Assange in his cell in London in May 2019 together with two experienced, widely respected doctors who are specialized in the forensic and psychological examination of torture victims. The diagnosis arrived at by the two doctors was clear: Julian Assange displays the typical symptoms of psychological torture. If he doesn’t receive protection soon, a rapid deterioration of his health is likely, and death could be one outcome.

Source: https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikilea...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#158

Post by westmeal »

spinglespingle wrote: post #7
tyingq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

the US has successfully become a 3rd world country. power in the hands of a few: check corruption at the highest possible level: check a gradually more authoritarian "leader": check a people who support such a leader: check military might used against political opponents: check enormous amounts of poverty cleverly ignored: check the list goes on. i suppose there is a time for every powerful nation to go into a deep d…

I mean, and this is just my opinion, this decline has been happening for a loooong time. Reagan just made things even worse by the war on drugs. Consolidation is just making things worse. I mean seriously look at the effective tax rate in the US for corporations over time [0]. The US is just making legislation to benefit corporations instead of individuals.

[0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/US_Effec...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#159

Post by Tepix »

d--b wrote: post #103

Given the state of the justice system in the UK and USA, maybe the best course of action for Assange is to get extradited, then tell the public that Wikileaks helped expose Hillary's private email server, and get pardoned by Trump...

If he is extradited, he will not receive a public trial.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#160

Post by einpoklum »

leftyted wrote: post #129
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

If you read this post and think it's a bizarre exaggeration, consider that the UN declared that Assange's decision to confine himself in the Ecuadorian embassy was "arbitrary detention". Similiarly, Ecuador's decision to temporarily deprive Assange of internet access was compared to solitary confinement, supposedly tantamount to torture. Clearly there's a certain amount of hysteria surrounding this case. Assange is n…

Assange did not "decide to confine himself" anywhere. That's like saying that if someone has threatened to beat you up if you leave your house and is waiting outside all the time, then you've "decided to confine yourself to your home".

Anyway, this has all been deliberated upon by international bodies - the UN working group on arbitrary detention has come to the conclusion that Assange was being _detained_ by the UK in the embassy, unfairly.

Now things have changed, with the UK apprehending him. He _is_ a 'political prisoner'. The definition is: "Someone imprisoned because they have opposed or criticized the government responsible for their imprisonment."

Indeed, the US is (mostly) responsible for Assange's imprisonment, and the imprisonment is because of his oppositionary and critical actions towards the US. The fact that Assange is held "by proxy" does not change his status.

(Note that being a political prisoner does not mean you did not do what you're charged with. You may have and you may have not. Also, it doesn't mean you're a good or bad person.)

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