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ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

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Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#151

Post by School-Cotton »

revicon wrote: post #7

I also have a t480, mines running Ubuntu but unfortunately I’m giving it up for a new MacBook Air. The touchpads on the thinkpads are beyond horrible after using macs for many years, it’s finally too annoying for me to keep going :(

If we don't count the keyboard issues, no laptop on the market is as nice to use as an MBP. If I had one with a physical escape key, I could probably make the statement without even that reservation.

But if you prefer Ubuntu to macOS for whatever reason, I've found the Dell XPS line to be good enough to be tolerable.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#152

Post by jtreminio »

2ion wrote: post #146

I won't buy another laptop without dedicated graphics card, which rules out most Thinkpads. Sorry, but igpu is not enough these days.

Funnily enough, I had wanted to purchase my Dell XPS 9570 (15") without dgpu, but they only offered it for their 13" model.

Until several months after release, support for the nvidia card was spotty on Ubuntu/Fedora so it would suck up power without it being used. It's better now, but my workflow doesn't really need a dgpu, and the igpu is enough to watch 1080p videos (probably not 4K, though).

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#153

Post by OJFord »

GordonS wrote: post #121
bayindirh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...mainstream OSes? Look how far we've come. Linux was the alternative OS just ~15 years ago. Now it's one of the mainstream OSes . TBH, I'd like to see one of the BSDs to become one of the mainstream OSes too. :) edit: Except macOS ofc. :)

> Now it's one of the mainstream OSes ...on servers. It's still far, far from "mainstream" for desktops. Still, that's a really big deal. I work for what is firmly a Microsoft shop, and nobody bat's an eyelid now if we use Linux VMs (as long as they're cloud-based). I think 3 things in particular have driven the rise of Linux as a mainstream server OS: 1. docker/containerisation. Sure, Windows containers exist, but h…

> It's still far, far from "mainstream" for desktops.

Desktops themselves are far from mainstream! The vast majority must be owned by gamers and video editors; both groups use predominantly non-Linux for reasons mostly unrelated to support that is or isn't in the kernel.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#154

Post by [deleted] »

bjornjajajaja wrote: post #117
loeg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time, resources, interest; lack of open datasheets and corporate sponsorship from the hardware vendors making the parts. These things don't just happen magically; people make them happen. Linux finally has enough market power that vendors willingly write drivers for it, but I remember a very similar situation with Linux in the 2000s when Microsoft was the only player around with that kind of market clout.

Also, who really NEEDS 802.11 ac?? If you’re that picky wtf not plug into Ethernet??

[deleted]

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#155

Post by cobar »

School-Cotton wrote: post #151
revicon wrote: post #7

I also have a t480, mines running Ubuntu but unfortunately I’m giving it up for a new MacBook Air. The touchpads on the thinkpads are beyond horrible after using macs for many years, it’s finally too annoying for me to keep going :(

If we don't count the keyboard issues, no laptop on the market is as nice to use as an MBP. If I had one with a physical escape key, I could probably make the statement without even that reservation. But if you prefer Ubuntu to macOS for whatever reason, I've found the Dell XPS line to be good enough to be tolerable.

It's possible to map the Caps Lock key to Escape as long as you don't need Caps Lock functionality.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#156

Post by dmix »

Koshkin wrote: post #126
travbrack wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because running freebsd on a laptop is an edge case. Most people run it on servers. It’s not trying to be everything to everyone like Linux is.

Linux it is, then.

Linux desktop is great in 2020, especially if you buy the right hardware with solid support, the experience is totally smooth and super-high performance with stuff like ArchLinux.

Boots up immediatley, no annoying MacOS updates or having to install XCode while having multiple versions of core unix packages, because it pre-installs a bunch of out-of-date ones you replace immediately with brew. This causes problems, especially for newbies new to working with terminals, as it falls back onto the old ones when stuff isn't linked or set up properly.

Nothing beats having a clean minimal /usr directory with only the stuff you decide to install and extremely fast startups with good battery use.

I get Macbooks for work but use a Linux one on the side (which I used for 5+ yrs when I was working freelance) and I plan to convince my boss to let me get a thinkpad or dell for the next laptop update.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#157

Post by migglesnz »

jtreminio wrote: post #152
2ion wrote: post #146

I won't buy another laptop without dedicated graphics card, which rules out most Thinkpads. Sorry, but igpu is not enough these days.

Funnily enough, I had wanted to purchase my Dell XPS 9570 (15") without dgpu, but they only offered it for their 13" model. Until several months after release, support for the nvidia card was spotty on Ubuntu/Fedora so it would suck up power without it being used. It's better now, but my workflow doesn't really need a dgpu, and the igpu is enough to watch 1080p videos (probably not 4K, though).

I have a T480S powering a 4k monitor on the igpu and it's more than happy to play 4k Youtube even without hardware acceleration.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#158

Post by loeg »

School-Cotton wrote: post #144
loeg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD dev here — I don't like this line of argument. It is always used to rationalize any defect in FreeBSD. Sometimes we just have defects! That's just the truth of things; we don't need to pretend we're defective on purpose . Many developers run FreeBSD on their daily driver laptops or workstations because it is (perhaps tautologically) one of the best platforms to develop FreeBSD on. Our wifi support isn't 100%…

I don't think the person you responded to was claiming or implying that FreeBSD's wifi support is incomplete on purpose. Rather giving a reason for why resources have not (yet?) been expended in that area. I have FreeBSD running on my home desktop workstation and everything is working fine, but I wouldn't try to install it on my laptop. Laptop hardware is just too variable and non-standard. Touchscreens, esoteric Wi-…

That's a very charitable read of GP's remarks. Kudos for the generosity, but I didn't get the same impression from the statements and the context. The phrases GP is repeating aren't novel; they're repeated time and time again in any messageboard discussion that ever touches on a missing feature in FreeBSD. You could say FreeBSD is missing SATA support (just for example; it isn't really) and someone would chime in with "FreeBSD isn't trying to be all things..."

As far as laptops, it all tends to be a bit specific to the model. There aren't too many different wifi chipsets these days; bluetooth is pretty simple from the software side of things. Power management and lid suspend work on most systems (as they say, resume is the hard part). Brightness controls should also work well. I don't know about fingerprint readers. Recently we landed Thinkpad PrivacyGuard support from software, for example. It's not particularly significant in isolation, just as an example of random modern laptop features that might exist in only a handful of models, which we still try to support in FreeBSD.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#159

Post by ptcampbell »

pedrocr wrote: post #93
ptcampbell wrote: post #90

Mac user here. Still use a desktop Mac mini daily, but have replaced my 13" Macbook Pro for a 14" Thinkpad running Ubuntu. So far so good. Haven't had nearly the amount of hardware issues reported in this thread. Only the fingerprint scanner does not work, despite best efforts to install its drivers. The hardest thing for me so far has been customising it to behave like macOS. The muscle memory of keyboard shortcuts…

I've been running 1.3x fake scaling for years by just tweaking fonts. In previous Ubuntu versions with Unity that was just a standard setting. Now I need to set the font scaling in the tweak tool and in the firefox about:config. After that everything just looks fine.

I was using an add-on to enable experimental scaling but it's noticeably slower and my remote desktop client doesn't adjust its scaling accordingly. But you're right – browser scaling gets you half way.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#160

Post by ptcampbell »

city41 wrote: post #109
ptcampbell wrote: post #90

Mac user here. Still use a desktop Mac mini daily, but have replaced my 13" Macbook Pro for a 14" Thinkpad running Ubuntu. So far so good. Haven't had nearly the amount of hardware issues reported in this thread. Only the fingerprint scanner does not work, despite best efforts to install its drivers. The hardest thing for me so far has been customising it to behave like macOS. The muscle memory of keyboard shortcuts…

I run Ubuntu MATE 18 on three different Thinkpads and they all work perfectly with zero tinkering. The only issue is they chew through the battery in no time, but since I’m almost always plugged in I’ve not bothered to investigate a fix.

I've found the "CPU Power Manager" add-on pretty good for battery life. I flick between the profiles depending on what I'm doing. Could be better, but I still get at least 4 hours on the "Multimedia" setting.
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