California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate • Hacker News Board

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#151

Post by majormajor » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 12:59 AM UTC

roca wrote: post #147

triceratops wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. I confused it with something else.

No problem. To an outsider like me, this seems like one of the worst features of Prop 13. Over time it separates people into two classes: those whose family has owned property for a long time, and everyone else who can't afford to buy a house because the taxes are prohibitive. (Even if you're very rich, it will make more sense to rent than to trigger tax reevaluation.) Call it neo-feudalism.

Taxes in CA are far from prohibitive, even with today's prices. The gap between affording something in the first place and being able to cover the tax is not that large. But the base prices are the killer.

But that's also largely a factor of mostly high-income people moving in, while mostly lower-income people are moving out. Keep up the business climate that fuels the inward funnel of money, and you'll keep prices high. Even if you reduce restrictions to building supply, you'll have a game theory bit of not lowering prices in any hurry since people can so clearly afford them and are so clearly willing to pay them.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#152

Post by usaar333 » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:00 AM UTC

throwaway713 wrote: post #33

There’s one thing that constantly confuses me with the housing crisis, which is why more people aren’t moving to other cities (or at least a lot faster than they currently are). Perhaps my mentality is different than most, but if I can improve my economic situation by moving elsewhere I will. I know for some people it is difficult to move because of family ties or costs associated with moving, but I would have though…

Well, economic situation is your income less expenses.

For a lot of people the Bay Area is maximizing this. But we're taking a huge social loss (as a nation) by making it so expensive to live in the area that offers the greatest opportunity.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#153

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:00 AM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #66

pdonis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments are the least-worst solution No, they're not, because while externalities and other forms of misaligned incentives are departures from the norm in free markets, they are the norm in governments.

It took governments less time to fix the Ozone hole (remember the Montreal Protocol?) than it took for the free market to converge on one type of phone charger that works on multiple devices. Unfettered faith in free markets and unfettered faith in governments are equally bad things.

[deleted]

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#154

Post by thedance » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:02 AM UTC

avocado4 wrote: post #113

Gimpei wrote: post #82

The SF board of supervisors has voted on resolutions opposing this bill several times now. If you care about housing and live in SF, take a second look at your supervisor. Their votes may not make a difference with respect to SB50 but they can certainly block housing in the city and too often they do.

Election turnout in SF is abysmally low. Those who do turn out are mostly homeowners who really want to keep the prices growing.

Nobody has ever lost a re-election race for SF district supervisor. It’s effectively a lifetime appointment.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#155

Post by usaar333 » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:02 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #14

Well the only solution is a ballot initiative to repeal prop 13. That will change things.

What will be the actual process by which things change? It's not obvious to me that say rents will drop if prop 13 is repealed.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#156

Post by thedance » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:04 AM UTC

roca wrote: post #147

triceratops wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. I confused it with something else.

No problem. To an outsider like me, this seems like one of the worst features of Prop 13. Over time it separates people into two classes: those whose family has owned property for a long time, and everyone else who can't afford to buy a house because the taxes are prohibitive. (Even if you're very rich, it will make more sense to rent than to trigger tax reevaluation.) Call it neo-feudalism.

This is not a feature of prop 13. Generational transfers were added in two later propositions, first for parents to children, later for generation-skipping transfers.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#157

Post by hcknwscommenter » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:07 AM UTC

Gimpei wrote: post #82

The SF board of supervisors has voted on resolutions opposing this bill several times now. If you care about housing and live in SF, take a second look at your supervisor. Their votes may not make a difference with respect to SB50 but they can certainly block housing in the city and too often they do.

It's so frustrating to me. I happened to have the radio on last night and the local NPR reporter stated seven times in six minutes that the bill failed because a bunch of groups who are nominally highly in favor of more housing just didn't think it went far enough (e.g., too much market rate housing not enough affordable, too focused on urban areas not enough suburban ex-urban, on and on and on). Classic shoot-yourself-in-the-foot move. At least it was a start. You can always try and improve it later. Now, we have nothing.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#158

Post by goodgoblin » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

Massachussets has a law that enables developers to bypass zoning restrictions if they are helping bring low income housing to an area: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Comprehensive_Pe...

I think it's sometimes used to threaten local zoning boards to capitulate to other developer demands, but it does contribute somewhat to the supply of affordable housing.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#159

Post by thedance » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

0xB31B1B wrote: post #143

40acres wrote: post #21

It's getting very difficult to see how California works its way out of this mess. SB 50 like measures can be passed at the local level in theory but if I've learned anything from these fights it's that older, wealthy homeowners will cripple any attempt to do so.

They can’t be passed at a local level without CEQA review and a torrent of unending lawsuits. That’s why it needs to happen at a state level.

That’s not true. Any city in California has total authority to adjust their zoning code. Cities change zoning as a matter of routine business. The reason cities have not done anything constructive is each individual small government is held hostage by its own incumbent land owners.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#160

Post by chooseaname » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 1:09 AM UTC

bsimpson wrote: post #139

justinzollars wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all need to go. Not one is a housing advocate. All spend their energy to limit housing. They say they are for affordable housing, but their mandates are designed to exclude both groups of people and housing.

It makes me sad that my supervisor got replaced with Dean Preston, whose entire persona is crafted around housing policy; yet, he is so staunchly against actually building housing. He's the epitome of everything wrong with SF Supervisors: they pit communities against each other to create political gridlock and build voting blocs for reelection, but do fuck-all to actually solve San Francisco's problems. No matter how…

> they pit communities against each other to create political gridlock and build voting blocs for reelection, but do fuck-all to actually solve San Francisco's problems.

Sounds remarkably like national politics.