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How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

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Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#151

Post by dhimes »

tobr wrote: post #122

This might come off as awfully naive, but this doesn’t sit right with me: > XYLO's mobile music lesson technology is the easiest way to learn new music, right from the comfort of your home. Our platform can teach your child any instrument on any schedule, and let them replay lessons forever. As far as I understand, this is... a complete lie? You just made some crap up to see if you can make people click?

It's understandably naive. As I commented in another thread, many many years ago there were discussions here on HN on doing just this. Most of us agreed it was immoral behavior. These guys are endorsing it.

The argument from the other side was: Yes, you are making some people angry. You're going to piss off 300 potential customers so you can learn enough to get 300,000. You're not taking money and if you protect their email addresses (don't sell them, etc.) then it's worth it because you can save a lot of money and time.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#152

Post by [deleted] »

xenadu02 wrote: post #107
thelittleone wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a similar experience running a consulting practice for a global software company. Our practice revenue was growing with profitably around 20% EBIT. Software sales where not growing as fast. As a result consulting was an increasing % of regional contribution income but at a lower margin. So my practice was lowering regional EBIT margin. We got told to slow down. I put an amazing guy in charge and resigned. Million…

There's a large opportunity cost to that strategy. If you allow consulting to make up 80% of revenue by default the business will inevitably turn into a consulting business, not a software business. Consulting can be a great way to bootstrap but you need to know when the tail is at risk of wagging the dog.

[deleted]

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#153

Post by TrackerFF »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #79
awb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are limited to billion dollar ideas How did matchmaking for music lessons get into the discussion as a billion dollar idea? Referrals for tutoring in any subject (math, reading, music, etc.) would be a bigger market, but even then it might not be a $1B company.

Well I was right there with you, thinking it was a completely shit idea, but a little math shows how it at least popped up on the radar (and I don't think its quite so bad myself after some thought): 100,000 music instructors, $60 per hour, at 365 days per year is roughly: $2.19 billion gross revenue per year-hour in the segment. Assuming, the average hours per day are like 3.5 (I can't imagine folks doing this are g…

Experienced guitarist here

$60 / hr is not awfully high, lots of private tutors in the western world charge that, but note, that's it the west. There are also hordes of tutors charging as low as $5-$10 / hr in the west. It is unfortunately a business that is absolutely overrun with undercutting.

I think in reality, the only tutors you'll find that can charge that much, consistently, are professional musicians (i.e doing it for a living), and those with a degree.

Neither does it help that free alternatives like youtube and IG vids are in great abundance, which again can help to bring down the perceived value of lessons ("Why should I pay $60 when this great musician with 100k followers is putting out lessons for free? / on patreon for $10 a month")

There's probably some kind of market, but I'm not sure it's a billion $ market.

I'm a member of various FB musicians groups: buy/sell, discussions, theory, etc. and you see small businesses and startups like these come by all the time.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#154

Post by Johnny555 »

woutr_be wrote: post #116
jmull3n wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would only need to be paired with one maid though.

Correct, and if that maid is a match, you proceed. How is that different from a dating site? In theory they only have to match you with one other person. But my main point was; on dating sites the middle man is almost always cut out instantly. Usually you try to immediately exchange numbers, and then proceed from there.

I don't know if you're tried online dating, but in my experience, it hasn't been "sign up for a month, find your wife and you're done".

I spent several years off and on with online dating (went on a lot of first dates, fewer several week relationships, and a few multi-month relationships) -- dating sites tend to give a steep discount for longer term (6mo, 12mo) subscriptions, so I was a subscriber for most of that time.

Ending up finding my wife offline though.

On the other hand, I found a housekeeper on Craigslist, called some of references (one was a neighbor), hired her, used her for a year, then when she moved out of the area, she referred me to someone else.

Turns out it's a lot easier to find a housekeeper than a romantic partner.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#155

Post by luord »

> Lastly, I can't imagine that tech won't win here with non-human based teaching. It's affordable, convenient, and scalable to any genre, language, right from home on many platforms.

That's just sad, even if probably true I'd still hope teachers remain. I'd rather have a human mentor when it comes to art.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#156

Post by logifail »

unlinked_dll wrote: post #56
throwawayjava wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such effing rent-seeking That was also my take-away regarding this idea. 20% cut? For match-making on private music lessons? Fuck that. Our local music store charges less than that for renting an hour in a soundproof room! And the discoverability/match-making "platform" is a free bulletin board next to the restroom... Also love how that email described the radical act of checking the local music store's bulletin bo…

Plus you can get a referral for private lessons from virtually any public or private school music teacher. For free.

> Plus you can get a referral for [snip] for free

Who actually thinks that a(ny) startup is going to be able to provide consistently higher-quality referrals than an actual word of mouth referral from someone you know?

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#157

Post by jlokier »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #133

Can someone explain to me how this is legal? False advertising laws exist and this is literally marketing a non-existent product. And even if it’s not illegal, I don’t understand how you can just be okay with lying to people. Everyone in this thread seems to just be totally okay with this and I’m super confused about it.

It probably is illegal under the GDPR and perhaps a future US personal data law. Take a look at what WilliamEdward wrote in a child comment:

> I went to the site myself and filled in some checkboxes. Added my email and it simply says i'm on a list and nothing else happens.

Under GDPR, your email is personal data (PII) and taking it from you under false pretences, to use for a purpose you were not informed about and did not consent to, is against the law.

Of course nobody is likely to sue over it.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#158

Post by tachudda »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #79
awb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are limited to billion dollar ideas How did matchmaking for music lessons get into the discussion as a billion dollar idea? Referrals for tutoring in any subject (math, reading, music, etc.) would be a bigger market, but even then it might not be a $1B company.

Well I was right there with you, thinking it was a completely shit idea, but a little math shows how it at least popped up on the radar (and I don't think its quite so bad myself after some thought): 100,000 music instructors, $60 per hour, at 365 days per year is roughly: $2.19 billion gross revenue per year-hour in the segment. Assuming, the average hours per day are like 3.5 (I can't imagine folks doing this are g…

Not sure about now, but I was a musician with a variety of instruments for about a decade in my youth. In my experience, private instruction was always locally advertised. For instance, I had lessons on oboe, violin and piano. The piano teacher was a friend of my mothers, oboe and violin I had a class at school where the instructor suggested where to get tutors, typically either former students in the local orchestra or students at the local college music program. To me, an app would have to improve upon this relatively convenient method of finding instructors. Typically these instructors come with the implicit approval of a trusted person as well.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#159

Post by chasd00 »

xenadu02 wrote: post #107
thelittleone wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a similar experience running a consulting practice for a global software company. Our practice revenue was growing with profitably around 20% EBIT. Software sales where not growing as fast. As a result consulting was an increasing % of regional contribution income but at a lower margin. So my practice was lowering regional EBIT margin. We got told to slow down. I put an amazing guy in charge and resigned. Million…

There's a large opportunity cost to that strategy. If you allow consulting to make up 80% of revenue by default the business will inevitably turn into a consulting business, not a software business. Consulting can be a great way to bootstrap but you need to know when the tail is at risk of wagging the dog.

money is money IMO. If the business turns into a consulting business because that's where the money is then so be it.

Re: How to Kill a Startup Idea with Google Keyword Planner and AdWords: A Case Study

#160

Post by poutrathor »

Traster wrote: post #144
vi-mode wrote: post #129

A wall of text intended as smart content marketing to get some awareness for a rather unknown investment firm or incubator--Crunchbase didn't show any raised funds, so I don't call them VC. The long, over-polite text, the fake landing, the ad test weren't required in the first place. Why: The immediate answer every experienced VC would give is a simple 'no, this isn't a VC case' without all this fuzz and waste of tim…

Counterpoint: Wag raised $300m for an almost identical idea.

Maybe because Wag targets a market where workers are hoping in and off more than cleaners ? Or because people are emotional toward their pets' spendings ?

Maybe because investors throw money to many stupid things.

("we never know" "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take").

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