Working for someone vs. doing your own thing • Hacker News Board

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#151

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #148

lotsofpulp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person that said $530 said no deductible, and they’re probably a young person. $1,500 family of 4 insurance will have at least a $5k deductible and $13k oop max I would estimate.

my wife and i are in our mid-50's. Here in NM, we have $1095/month with a $6600 deductible each. I'm happy paying 10 of our income for health insurance, but only if we actually get health coverage without that kind of deductible.

My parents at a few years older than you get bronze HSA PPO at ~$2k per month for both with a $13k oop max and a $5k or something deductible.

The thing about health coverage is that you either pay via your premium or via deductible/oop max, but there is no escape. The health insurance is there to protect you from losing your assets from costs over the out of pocket maximum.

Since you’re in mid 50s, even the astronomical amount you pay is actually being subsidized by younger people, since your premium is capped as a multiple of someone in their young 20s.

Otherwise, you’re real health insurance premium would be even higher. That’s just how expensive healthcare is in the US, and how guaranteed you are to needing it as you get older.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#152

Post by taneq » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:08 AM UTC

greggyb wrote: post #137

daxfohl wrote: post #4

There's a pretty high correlation between parental wealth and success as a startup founder. I assume it's because of the safety net. My friends who have been successful (and who had blue-collar upbringings like me, and all in mid-40's now) all worked full time jobs until their side projects were self-sustaining. None of them hit unicorn status, but I think all of them have lived healthy, fruitful lives. Also note by…

> high correlation between parental wealth and success as a startup founder. I assume it's because of the safety net. Supporting a few sibling commenters here. I believe it is more nuanced than a safety net provided by parental wealth. I definitely come from a background of privilege. My grandfathers were both high status professionals. My parents were a combination of high-performing professional and Ph.D. I have pu…

I agree that there's more to it than growing up comfortably well off. Among other factors there's the mindset; I grew up in a professional family with deeply working class roots, and was raised with the idea that the way to get ahead in life is to get a good education so you can get a good job. The prospect of owning a company or being an employer rather than an employee was never even acknowledged. It took me a long time to break out of this mindset despite always having a general feeling that owning a company was the only real way to get ahead.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#153

Post by throwaway1777 » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:11 AM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #149

daxfohl wrote: post #4

There's a pretty high correlation between parental wealth and success as a startup founder. I assume it's because of the safety net. My friends who have been successful (and who had blue-collar upbringings like me, and all in mid-40's now) all worked full time jobs until their side projects were self-sustaining. None of them hit unicorn status, but I think all of them have lived healthy, fruitful lives. Also note by…

I would assume not; most people have this safety net. Having one or two parents with a couch you could sleep on is standard.

Sleeping on a parent's couch isn't an option for many people for a wide variety of reasons, and it's certainly the very minimum bar for a safety net. For example many people I know live thousands of miles from their parents. Sure it's an option, but it would be truly a last resort before homelessness.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#154

Post by modo_mario » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:11 AM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #57

dkersten wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$530/month sounds insanely expensive to me as someone outside of the US. My private health insurance costs me approx $100/month. 530 is over half my rent (outside of a major city though, in the major cities rent is much higher)

how much do you pay in taxes though?

For healthcare? In my case much less because the system feels a bit like very regulated competing non profits with a public option available and defined minimum service.

I've heard we've been paying more and more for certain types of medicine as far as subsidies go and although i haven't looked into it enough i can't help but look with distrust at recent governments over it.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3...

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#155

Post by fouc » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:21 AM UTC

ruvis wrote: post #138

spir wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hundred years ago a wonderful slender book was written, "How To Live On 24 Hours A Day" by Arnold Bennett. He suggests getting up early and doing your passion projects before work. https://www.amazon.com/How-Live-24-Hours-Day/dp/1603863680

But I get up at 4am already

That works well if you don't go to work on your full-time job before 9am

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#156

Post by minism » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

neonate wrote: post #10

daxfohl wrote: post #4

There's a pretty high correlation between parental wealth and success as a startup founder. I assume it's because of the safety net. My friends who have been successful (and who had blue-collar upbringings like me, and all in mid-40's now) all worked full time jobs until their side projects were self-sustaining. None of them hit unicorn status, but I think all of them have lived healthy, fruitful lives. Also note by…

Given the research on adverse childhood experiences, there's likely a subtler advantage too, for founders who were raised in more stable and secure environments. Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk. I'm not saying wealthy families don't have this, or that poor families can't be stable and secure. But on average it probably makes a diffe…

This is somewhat of an aside, but it's been interesting watching the constant debate about the direction of causality between financial and emotional stability in a family.

I think when I was younger I tended to see financial success and stability as a downstream effect of other factors, but I can't help but now see that viewpoint as naive. Economic pressure alone is sufficient to create severe emotional stress and instability (which probably creates a feedback loop that makes it even harder to recover from).

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#157

Post by akvadrako » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

kentrado wrote: post #23

tannerc wrote: post #2

I like Austin Kleon's insights here [1]: "A day job gives you money, a connection to the world, and a routine. Freedom from financial stress also means freedom in your art. As photographer Bill Cunningham says, 'If you don’t take money, they cant tell you what to do.' Because the real truth is, once you start making money doing what you love, it BECOMES A JOB. And with it comes all the hassle of a job." It's why I've…

I would like to try that approach but I just don't have the energy after working all day to come home and start investing time chasing wildly creative projects.

Then don’t work so much. One can live comfortably doing freelance programming for 3 months a year and spending the rest of the time on creative projects.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#158

Post by deepaksurti » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

complianceowl wrote: post #15

neonate wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the research on adverse childhood experiences, there's likely a subtler advantage too, for founders who were raised in more stable and secure environments. Growing up under greater pressure (violence, abuse, trauma) leaves you less resilient, more risk averse, more at risk. I'm not saying wealthy families don't have this, or that poor families can't be stable and secure. But on average it probably makes a diffe…

That's a great point. I can only speak for myself here, but I can 100% confirm that having been raised in a loving, secure, and stable home has probably been the greatest contributing factor to my career success and having a major inclination in life towards optimism. The gratitude towards my parents alone has driven me to push myself harder in my career.

Exactly same here and really grateful to be so lucky, especially when I compare with my less privileged friends.

It is a factor often missed in outcomes and sometimes wrongly attributed to persistence.

It is always easy to be persistent without any economic pressure or financial liabilities, even more so when your family ensures that for you.

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#159

Post by daxfohl » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #41

mc3 wrote: post #26

A day job doesn't have to be your side project's enemy. If you do web dev at work you get paid to do something that makes you efficient at web dev. Then you go home and work on your side project and you don't need to spend hours struggling with webpack or why str=((num || fallback) + '') works, so your side project is done more productively too.

Come home at ~6pm, make/have dinner ~7pm, exercise ~8pm, get home and shower ~9pm. At this point there's not much time to do work, especially if you have to go grocery shopping, do laundry, clean, have a family, or any number of other misc things like get a haircut or have clothes dry cleaned.

It's so funny to read stuff like this from people who don't have kids. I remember thinking the same. Now I look back and realize with horror how friggin much free time there was and how much more I could have done with it!

Re: Working for someone vs. doing your own thing

#160

Post by wolfoftheweb » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

q-base wrote: post #147

kentrado wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to try that approach but I just don't have the energy after working all day to come home and start investing time chasing wildly creative projects.

I would say that this also depends a lot on how draining and intense your day job is. Some jobs require too much of you to be able to do anything once you are done - or do so in periods. You will probably have to decide what is most important to you. You cannot chase and strive for promotions, extra responsibility etc. on your day job while still wanting to do your own thing in your spare time. Perhaps you need to lo…

I agree with you 100% that it's on the individual to find a job which is most suitable for them.

Interestingly, for myself the more intense the day at work is, the more energized I feel when I get home to work on my own passion projects and businesses. Since my role has been relatively autonomous, I'm the one setting the intensity level and if it's a high pressure day it means I bit off more than I bargained for.

To avoid the after-hours productivity slump, I try not to let work get "slow" by taking on new projects, asking other teams what problems they're encountering, and finding new tools to add to my arsenal. That being said, there are still days that seem to crawl by and very little is left to be done. Those are the days that drain me mentally and physically. Some of the people I've worked with have talked about how they spend their workdays pretending to work while actually playing mobile games or whatever and how it makes the day go by faster. I'm genuinely fascinated by what I perceive to be their complacency and lack of ambition.

As background, this is my first role at an organization I'm not a founder of and I started there three years ago at the age of 27. Starting at age 14 I had my website network which was racking up $500+ a month in server bills, so the entrepreneurial lifestyle (rollercoaster ride) is my definition of normal. As a first-time employee, I've had some embarrassing moments while learning the rules and etiquette which is probably common sense to everyone else.