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The Youth Unemployment Bomb

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Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the jobs are truly pointless, they're not destroying wealth. Rather, they redistribute wealth. And even if they do destroy wealth (and you need to provide examples of specific positions and why they are counterproductive and not just unproductive) the destruction may be evened out by keeping them in the working mindset and being a normal member of society.

Tax money that goes to unproductive areas of the economy presumably must first be taken from productive areas of the economy (when I say productive areas I mean areas like manufacturing, high tech, agriculture etc. - they create wealth from scratch.) So redistributing tax from a productive area to an unproductive area acts like 'drag' on a car or airplane. The less 'drag' (less tax), the easier the 'vehicle' (the tra…

It's just as easily to set up a useless, profitable company as it is to set up a useless government branch. So the assumption that the taxed area of the economy is productive is somewhat suspect. It's in fact possible to set up large, destructive, private bureaucracies that turn a profit. Our mounds of financial regulations do their best to make that hard, but the fact is people still make a lot of money doing it. Wealth creation and profit are two very different things.

Giving people pointless jobs creates stability, which in many cases is more valuable than any sort of physical good.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax money that goes to unproductive areas of the economy presumably must first be taken from productive areas of the economy (when I say productive areas I mean areas like manufacturing, high tech, agriculture etc. - they create wealth from scratch.) So redistributing tax from a productive area to an unproductive area acts like 'drag' on a car or airplane. The less 'drag' (less tax), the easier the 'vehicle' (the tra…

It's just as easily to set up a useless, profitable company as it is to set up a useless government branch. So the assumption that the taxed area of the economy is productive is somewhat suspect. It's in fact possible to set up large, destructive, private bureaucracies that turn a profit. Our mounds of financial regulations do their best to make that hard, but the fact is people still make a lot of money doing it. We…

And let's remember that the argument in favour of government work programmes isn't solely to be contrasted with not-spending-the-money... it's to be contrasted with welfare.

So the society/government has, broadly speaking, three alternatives (and a continuum therebetween):

* Do nothing for the unemployed * Give the unemployed some money * Act as employer of last resort

Doing nothing acts as less drag on the productive aspects of the economy, and also it's really easy to implement. The downsides include civil unrest, and also arguably have long-term negative consequences on the productiveness of the entire workforce (compare with economically-inefficient government subsidies of shipbuilding in nations that wish to maintain the ability to go to naval war, e.g. the US).

Giving them money eases the civil unrest problem. Yay, less revolutions! And hopefully for people who go through temporary rough spots, it permits them to reenter the productive workforce, instead of falling into inescapable poverty. The main downside is screwed-up economic incentives for the unemployed.

Work projects have no greater drag on the productive economy than EI, but might have less drag. Also, they act as work experience, and they eliminate the wicked incentive for the underemployed workers. BUT, they create screwed-up incentives for the employers, who now have a source of cheap labour, which they are now incented to victimize. (Compare with the incentive problems with US for-profit prisons.) Work projects may prevent recipients from seeking new better jobs (through being busy during the workday). Work projects compete at the low end with non-government-run businesses, in ways that are sometimes seen to be economically troubling (I don't follow this argument, myself).

So, sometimes the arguments against work projects also apply to 100% subsidies: "that's anti-capitalist, anti-competitive, pinko commie socialism". But there are some other arguments that the left levy against work projects, like the victimization/incentive issue.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably skills for nursing the mentally infirm, as the account of her employment after her education indicated. The statement that she was a honors student has nothing to do with her education, but is an expression that she's devoted to her tasks.

The friends of mine who have cared for the mentally infirm and invalid held a graphic design degree and a CNA with a high school diploma, respectively. I do not debate her devotion to her education or her job duties, but the misfortune of modern youth is that our educational backgrounds often bear no resemblance to what will bring value to an employer. If her resume says "BSc, Disadvantaged Female Chimpanzee Sciences…

Her degree is in special education.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#154
post #139
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean some sort of administration that would give people money to work on projects? Like a Work Projects Administration? Sorry, Roosevelt did that, but nowadays I am pretty sure it would be called socialism.

> You mean some sort of administration that would give people money to work on projects? Like a Work Projects Administration? Those sorts of projects/spending got killed in 08 because womens' groups objected to money going to "burly men" projects. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/00... Of course, govt spending is always political. At one time, one could both pay off supporters and build up th…

Note that this has been a "mancession". See http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/06/happy-fathers-day-its-st... and the update http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/... .

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#155
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sister who is unemployed in California (Pasadena), so I will make a few anecdotal observations. She was an honors student in college and taught special ed for some years before moving on to manage some group homes for the mentally impaired. She then went into home health care and became unemployed when a job offer fell through. During this time (over 1 year), she has applied for many jobs (including an inter…

Has she tried working with her college's career services? Most of the major colleges that I know of have a separate set of people (from their undergrad folks) that are dedicated to helping alums get re-employed.

You were probably down voted for 1) it is assumed that she has already gone this route, 2) the departments in undergrad career placement (outside of top tier schools) are normally as effective (worthless) as Unemployment offices.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#156
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was it for a real job or for a minimum wage type job(McDonalds etc)

Please don't be a smartass. It was a real job as a software engineer at a DARPA research lab. Like I said, he was good.

Congrats to him! 10 cold-calls a day to relevant companies and specific hiring manager (jigsaw, spoke, linkedin) is highly effective at gaining 1st interviews. Linkedin just for "cold connection" or "cold email" contact works very well also. With recent grads / the younger work force tends to apply for jobs outside the realm of their abilities. Such as, 3-5 years of X and X. My own favorite (I was unemployed for 6 months post grad in 2009) was contacting companies / persons and stating something to the effect of "I know you are looking for someone with 3-5 years of experience. I am a recent graduate with 1-2 and wanted to know if you were considering more junior candidates. Could we setup a phone or 1st interview?" Or, volunteering for free.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#157

The simple answer is: These kids are training for the wrong jobs. College (in many areas) is a waste. Trade schools (vo-tech) offer a (almost 100%) guarantee of employment. A trade is a gateway to self employment (once you have your hours in for licensing). My brother has his master electrician's license in two states. He has more work than he knows what to do with. I have two friends who recently went back to school…

http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.htm...

I have a few trade's friends, and a few programmer friends (well, one hacker, one QA / side project hacker). The plumber friend makes $50k in this down market, typically $80k at 1-3 years of experience. The hacker / QA make ~50-55k at 2-4 years. Its all relative to your skills and contributions, but, I am only agreeing that you can make "good" money at a trades skill.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#158
I'm sure many people who are unemployed are unemployed through no fault of their own. But...

... the other day I checked out a site for finding tech/design-oriented interns. There were 50 listed in my city (Philadelphia)... and most of the eye-catching descriptions the interns had written for themselves were things like:

* "Coming soon"

* "19 years old"

* "I'm a recent graduate of the University of Miami"

* "My name is Brittany"

* "My name is [redacted] and I am a 19-year-old Korean-American student."

This was the only part of the profile that was really custom to them, other than checking off a list of skills & available times/dates.

Don't even get me started on the usernames they chose to present to potential employers. (Musicbabi_87?!)

Their chances are pretty much zero. Obviously nobody taught these kids (and, in a few cases, adults) anything at all about professionalism or the fact that when they take a job, their job is to serve the employer. And they obviously haven't been reading books on their own that would teach them that.

Only a precious few mentioned anything that would tell me what I'd get out of the deal, how they could help me/be useful to me. Almost none even expressed any interests or goals of their own.

So, obviously, I'm not hiring any of them -- when I would have liked to. They got in their own way. This is, sadly, their fault.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#159
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alex, you might be interested in Lang, Siniver, 2011[1]. What is interesting in this particular study how quickly the market acquires the information. So, if the unemployment is a global phenomenon across many different markets, in the same civilisation, it is possible that it changed somewhat permanently. (just an idea; I'm not fully convinced as well) [1]. http://papers.nber.org/papers/w16730

"Our results are therefore consistent with the view that employers use education information to screen workers but that the market acquires information fairly rapidly." I'm potentially interested in reading this but I have to ask, are they measuring the acquisition of information by changes in employment status and salary? Because if so this seems like begging the question.

Yes. It uses self-reported wages.

Re: The Youth Unemployment Bomb

#160
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying people to make stuff isn't a bad idea, if your government would be doing public works (e.g. roads) anyway, you just get to do that stuff a bit quicker. Paying people to do made-up jobs (e.g. most of the UK public sector) just destroys wealth.

If these people would otherwise be unemployed, and if their wages are modest, then it doesn't destroy any wealth, and if what they do is even slightly useful, it creates wealth.

Their wages are not modest. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sect...
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