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New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

tuwien.at

151–160 of 163 posts

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#151
post #64

I've always wanted to build a little hobby project where I put TECs on top of my wood stove and have a radiator outside with coolant to get a nice big heat difference (maybe 100C to 200C) across them and make power in winter when solar isn't so great in the Yukon. I know it won't be a massive amount of power, but given it will be 24/7 for about 6 months of winter when the wood stove runs, I think it will be a useful…

Tear one of these apart? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007BLN652/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5j...

You could also use the coolant to pull heat off the stove (obvs with appropriate safety built in) and run the hot side of the TEC within spec.

I’ve seen wood stoves get red hot after an incorrect damper setting runs for 5-10 mins, direct heating might fry your circuits.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#152
Something I was curious about, but not sure where to start - suppose you wanted to make something that at 400-500K, would emit radio waves from which the temperature could be derived. And as small, simple and durable as possible, so it didn't break down.

I mean, there's going to inherently be infrared, so how can you convert that to radio of roughly a desired frequency range without complex machinery?

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phase change yes. Or water chillers. I can't imagine why anyone would be more inclined to use a peltier as wattage increases. Higher wattages make that idea progressively worse unless you have some very specific and strange requirements.

Are you talking about the giant Peltiers that flopped in the late 90's and early 00's? Nobody is talking about that. I'm talking about micron, maybe millimeter-scale peltiers to increase the thermal conductivity of the absolute worst spots on the chip. That may mean a particular ALU, or it could mean circuits with far more layers than we can manage now (due to yields and thermal limitations)

> the absolute worst spots on the chip. That may mean a particular ALU

The worst spots aren't much worse than the median spots (over calculating silicon, not cache). Anything big enough to be a hot spot, like a big ALU, is big enough to represent a large portion of your power budget. The main goal is to get all the heat away from the chip, and putting peltiers on a large portion of the chip gives you more heat to take away. For anything significantly smaller than that, the heat bleeds out without the need of a peltier. There might be a middle ground where peltiers could make a real life difference, but I'm skeptical.

> or it could mean circuits with far more layers than we can manage now

That sounds like you're cooling the entire chip, which is the worst time to use a peltier.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#154
post #87
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am twenty years removed from it, but I used to be well-informed on this kind of thing; I have a PhD in mineral physics. Let's see how well I can explain this (haven't read the article, yet, sorry! Waiting for a plane...) So you're no doubt familiar with the physics of a vibrating string; it resonates at wavelengths (length of string, 2 * length of string, 3 * length of string... n as n->inf). So you can express any…

This is so cool, thank you. I dabble informally and quite primitively with signal processing, so the idea of vibrational spectrums in a crystalline structure really resonates (hurrr). Now i have a whole new set of mental imagery to process when i pick up the pan with a handle that had the handle a little too close to the flame. Thanks!!

I hate to mess with your physics education but silicone covers for all your metal pan handles is a godsend, even for atheists.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#155
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't this reduce the thermal output of your stove quite significantly? I suppose that might not be a problem in practice (most wood stoves I've used end up overheating the room if you're not careful), but it's not like it's free energy :P

> Won't this reduce the thermal output of your stove quite significantly I'm going to chime in and say that I think it will be insignificant. I don't know for sure, but I really doubt you could do much to cool the stove. When it's cold in the Yukon, I'm literally stuffing in ~8-10 big logs every ~12 hours. It's not at all uncommon for the base of the chimney to be glowing red. Obviously not ideal, but it happens. Whe…

Glowing red?

As an Amateur Blacksmith (and lifetime member of the Blacksmiths Guild of the Potomac), I was taught that color meant you were hitting 500-600 degrees Fahrenheit, which is usually about the lowest temperature you normally want to have when working on a piece of metal.

If you’re hitting those kinds of temperatures, I’d think you would need some substantial work done on the thermo electric components to keep them from melting, much less being able to operate.

Or am I missing something obvious here?

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#156
post #64

I've always wanted to build a little hobby project where I put TECs on top of my wood stove and have a radiator outside with coolant to get a nice big heat difference (maybe 100C to 200C) across them and make power in winter when solar isn't so great in the Yukon. I know it won't be a massive amount of power, but given it will be 24/7 for about 6 months of winter when the wood stove runs, I think it will be a useful…

I've been experimenting with this idea too. The idea is to drive a fan, which blows on metal heatsink attached on the cool side of the TEC. The air stream further accelerates the fire, so this becomes a reinforcing circle. Directly wiring it is not enough, you need a battery to start, buffer, then you need a controllers, never had time for this

There is a company making beautiful camping stoves with TECs and fans: www.bioliteenergy.com

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#157
post #97

If an advanced civilization continued to improve the efficiency of this effect would they eventually use it to capture the majority of the energy output of their local star? You could have a shell of high efficiency solar satellites surrounded by another shell of high efficiency Seebeck satellites. What would this look like from a distance? Would they be able to capture enough energy so their star would be indistingu…

If we look at our planet, we should realize that fossils and nuclear power are limited. Aside of the quantitative limitation, we get to feel the negative green-house effects now, making alternative energy sources even more urgent. The only real long-term source is the sun. We HAVE to (completely) switch to sun energy within the next 100 years. This will require huge photon harvesting facilities. For now, covering our deserts would be enough. But what if our energy requirement increases 10 fold? The more energy we have, the more people can have steaks and luxury. In the SECOND we reach the point of energy limitation on Earth, we will expand our photon harvesting facilities into space, close to Earth. This will grow with generations, so will technology. The gigantic amount of energy daily shining onto Earth is still ridicously few compared to what the Sun radiates every second. The photon harvesting layer will shrink, become more efficient, harvest more wavelengths (maybe even just a single atomic layer) and routed to central cores where it is collected and sent to Earth or the future intelligence habitat. Even if it is just a mirror, redirecting the photons to a central core, which routes it close to Earth, where it will evaporate water - or whatever much smarter ideas our future generations will find.

And this is what we could do now with our technology.

The infra-red issue, imho, is based on current technology level. No light enters the depth of the ocean because life evolved to build photon-recepters of all wave-lengths, even the less fruitful.

Taking this into consideration, every maturing civilization WILL inevitably produce Dyson spheres at least transiently. We already started it! Just look at the solar moduls of the ISS, which are actually the beginning of a Dyson sphere.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#158
post #69
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much power are you trying to make? You can already buy "off the shelf" USB power supplies for camp fires

As much as possible. I would probably cover the entire top of the stove in TECs (so maybe something like 0.5m^2). If I wanted to I could play with adding some to the sides, onto the chimney, etc. Essentially, it's just to supplement the solar which as I said isn't so crash hot in the Yukon in winter. It's a hobby, and I'd like to see what I can get out of it. Again, because it's 24x7 for ~6 months I think it might be…

> How much power are you trying to make?

> As much as possible.

That is not a useful response. Would it be worth doing if "possible" turned out to be 0.1 mW? 1 mW? 10 mW? 100 mW? 1 W? 10 W? 100 W? 1 kW? 10 kW? Presumably somewhere in that sequence your answer goes from "no" to yes" and that point determines what tradeoffs you're going to be willing to accept in order to increase your power capacity.

People have suggested steam engines. Those would definitely produce more power than TECs, at least twice as much and potentially six times as much. But they are far more likely to kill you. Is that tradeoff worth it to you?

TECs are pretty expensive per watt. Are you really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars if it will increase your energy output a little? How about hundreds of thousands?

There are tradeoffs in any engineering design. It's obvious that more power is better, but without some idea of the shape of your utility curve, it's impossible to evaluate those tradeoffs in a useful way.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#159
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am twenty years removed from it, but I used to be well-informed on this kind of thing; I have a PhD in mineral physics. Let's see how well I can explain this (haven't read the article, yet, sorry! Waiting for a plane...) So you're no doubt familiar with the physics of a vibrating string; it resonates at wavelengths (length of string, 2 * length of string, 3 * length of string... n as n->inf). So you can express any…

Great information! Also, (and I may be totally wrong about this!), the concept of Annealing from metallurgy -- seems related to that of Quartz Inversion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)

Well, both annealing and dunting ("quartz inversion") have to do with the crystalline structure of materials, but that's where the similarity ends. There are many important crystalline phase transitions in metallurgy that are more similar to dunting; the most important of many examples is probably the ferrite-to-austenite transition in steels at 700–1400°. But annealing is not such a crystalline phase transition.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#160
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I'm curious about your living situation, though. Do you live out there most of the year (are you there right now?), or is it kind of a vacation home? Sounds cool... I'm always interested in off-the-grid living arrangements.

I don't have enough money for a vacation home! I'm full time in the Yukon when I'm not on the road. Many people up North have solar setups and are off grid, usually with older lead-acid battery setups which work just fine. Solar is great in the summer when the sun is up for 20+ hours a day, but slim in the winter when we only get ~4 hours of sunlight. Most people supplement with a generator for a couple of hours a da…

Are you software/do tech work? Do you work remotely? And are you completely off-grid, or live in a small community? I just find it very interesting.

By the way, I wonder if it's possible to use waste heat from a generator to warm your house, so you can turn down the stove.

(Also, I was curious about your project idea too and it turns out they do already build wood stove thermoelectric generators if you Google that term...)

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