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Help me ask why you didn't just

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Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#151

Post by taberiand »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #127
isidor3 wrote: post #55

My go-to would be "Do you know if sshd would work?" To me, framing it directly as a knowledge question, and to not appear as if you're coming from a place of authority (unless you know both their problem and your solution both well enough to solve it without running into edge cases, and how often does that happen?). They either know or they don't, or potentially have a reason for not trying in the first place. If the…

Why not also explain why you think sshd could work, though? The recipient might not understand the connection you're trying to make between the proposed solution and their problem.

Sometimes it's just a hunch, a feeling that maybe sshd or whatever would work - the hope is they've already figured out that hunch and will be able to clarify your thoughts before you have to.

I'd probably phrase it 'did you consider using X here?' sometimes prefaced with 'maybe I'm missing something...'

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#152

Post by l0b0 »

What seems to work for me is specifying exactly which part of the solution you might want to replace and why, phrasing it like a brainstorm idea rather than a fully thought-out proposal: "Would it be easier to frobnicate if we replaced the blarter with sshd?" This should make it clear that a) you're not suggesting that the blarter feature set overlaps exactly with sshd, which would be an astronomical coincidence, and b) you're focusing on frobnication to the exclusion of every other axis along which you might measure the usefulness of the blarter.

In my experience the responses are always productive - most of the time they are happy to explain why the blarter is better at frobnicating or why some other useful feature of the blarter trumps sshd. And once we have a dialogue it's easier to introduce other brainstorm-y ideas. Conversely, in the rare case where they realize that sshd is actually a good alternative they simply hadn't considered they often instantly volunteer three other reasons why it's more useful than the blarter.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#153

Post by reportgunner »

The whole angle of the author is wrong.

If you don't want the other person to take it harshly, tell them exactly what you think. Talk about yourself and don't ask for an answer that you don't know.

I wonder if you've considered using XY. It seems it might be a good fit thanks to the ZZZ property of XY.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#154

Post by atoav »

OrderlyTiamat wrote: post #147

I like the way the author tries to dismantle this phrase, but it seems to me there is no magical way to phrase the question and have it not be interpreted however the other person percieves it. Ultimately, communication is a two way street. One has to assume that the other party is working in good faith- if you are 6workin in the spirit of cooperation, the phrasing doesn't matter that much anymore, the positive meani…

What is interesting is that communication is at the heart of many things unless you are alone — and many are completely unaware of this. E.g. driving your car in traffic is quite definitly communication, as others have to “read” your behaviour and interpret it. Good drivers are very concious about what they communicate in which situation, bad drivers communicate completely without knowing about it and are bad at reading others communication.

I think you should always think a little bit for the person opposite: Did you give enough context? Is it ambiguos? etc.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#156

Post by mirimir »

beaker52 wrote: post #145

The problem appears to me to be around the assumptions that we make when we use the phrase "Why didn't you just use x?" Consider "Did you try x?". It's matter of fact. It offers them the benefit of doubt whilst simultaneously giving them the the opportunity to be oblivious x, without assuming one way or the other. Much easier to begin a conversation with. Speaking about facts makes conversations easier. In tech we're…

Yes!

I mean just ask whether they tried it.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#157

Post by marvin »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #138
luxuryballs wrote: post #129

You’d think this guy works in an adult daycare center, either that or I’m an asshole. Why didn’t you just ask the question and not worry about how it comes across instead of writing an article about it? :P

I’m happy somebody pays this much attention to what emotions they cause in others. Communication with humans is hard, and people get it wrong every day. The people who don’t realise this are either natural born communicators, or rough to be around, in my experience. People accommodate rude colleagues but it’s rarely pleasant. For the rest of us, this much introspection is what it takes to decrypt the codex. If you fi…

Just making an observation here that I haven't seen elsewhere in the thread -- this subject is more tricky in written communication and for people who are less sensitive to body language.

If you're communicating in person and are above-average sensitive to others' reactions, you'll be very likely to immediately pick up whether your "did you try sshd?" was interpreted as criticism. Most people will react with a slight tensing or a particular a change in facial expression or body position if they interpret something as criticism. Then you can just follow up with "this wasn't meant as criticism; I'm just curious".

If no reaction, then don't say anything; your intent came through fine. And if they genuinely hadn't considered sshd and feel stupid because of that, that would be the kind of almost-inevitable interpersonal discomfort that any healthy adult would be expected to deal with in stride. If appropriate and you wanted to be unreasonably sensitive, you could soothe the situation with "I'm not familiar with the details of doing this in your domain, there's of course the possibility there might be some unknown gotcha there".

Most socially sensitive people wouldn't articulate or think consciously about this when it happens in person, it's just an inherent part of the unexpectedly complex and quick back-and-forth of conversation.

Written communication is a subject in itself, many dimensions of communication are lost when there is no tone of voice or body language. I almost think people should be encouraged from childhood not to apply a tone of voice when reading written communication, or ask if they're unsure.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#158

Post by d--b »

The problem here is that the author assumes that the person he is addressing is a total moron for not using sshd, so he is afraid that his question is going to be badly taken.

Most people when asked “why didn’t you just xxx” would answer in 3 ways:

1. Oh shit, you’re right, I’m such an idiot... oh well...

2. Because yyy

3. I don’t know xxx, can you show me?

The issue is that people feel the intention behind your question because of context (mostly what your relationship to that person is)

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#159

Post by spawarotti »

hjorthjort wrote: post #118

The final suggestions are good, much better than "why didn't you just". The problem comes when your initial thought is actually a good idea, and your colleague could actually have saved some time. This happens a lot in the interaction between senior and junior engineers. For those situations, it's not great to be asking for an explanation on the spot, because then the explanation is just "I'm an idiot/ignorant of tha…

hjorthjort, exactly my thinking.

Another one:

"I was wondering if `sshd` would work here. What do you think?"

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#160

Post by rbongers »

I like "what would happen if you used sshd"? (Not "tried sshd", that's important). They will either tell you the outcome of what they already tried or will be lead to the solution.

The only way I can think of this being misconstrued is "what would happen if you used sshd? Or are you an idiot and you haven't even tried it yet?" But that's a bit of a stretch. The reason I think this is different from the other phrasings is that it presupposes that the person has already tried the solution more than not. At the same time, it makes your ignorance clear - you cannot say "when you used sshd" because you don't know if they have tried it yet, but you ask them for the outcome knowing that they might've.

The downside is that for sometimes people might not pick up on what you're saying if they don't know much about the solution because it's so indirect, but that's the trade-off for favoring the other side of things. I think that once you know they haven't tried it, you can be a bit more direct as long as you're not condescending. Not that this is easy.

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