Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are giving the CEO credit for everything positive that the company does. Shouldn't some of the credit go to the workers? Not to mention, many companies are a net negative to society.
No I'm not giving the CEO credit for everything positive that the company does. I said the CEO may generate tiny value for millions or billions of people. As a thought experiment, imagine a CEO of company making $5B/year of nebulous undefined "value" with 250M customers (roughly Spotify-ish?). That company's "value" per customer is about $20/year. Compared to a teacher, I think this company's impact per "customer" ro…
Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
151–160 of 200 posts
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
So get rid of indefinite compound interest. Generational wealth has always struck me as fundamentally unjust, for the basic reason that you don't get to pick your parents. I see the argument that a man is entitled to the sweat of his brow; we can debate just how to define what is his sweat vs. infrastructural sweat, but the underlying point seems fair enough. I do not see the argument that a man is entitled to the sw…
> I do not see the argument that a man is entitled to the sweat of his father's brow. I expect most people would agree. However, views change drastically when you turn it around. A great many people feel entitled to use the sweat of their own brow to provide for their own children . This includes providing an inheritance, especially a house. Few people are happy to provide from their own work equally for everyone's c…
That said, if you just care about wealth inequality, it's totally fine to buy your child a modest house, or even buy them an expensive house at a large marginal tax rate. As the paper points out, you don't need to stop all intergenerational wealth transfers, you only need to stop a portion of the wealth transfers of the richest people at the far end of the RNG.
The trick about "a house," in particular, is it means two things - a place to live and an investment vehicle. I agree that many people will be sympathetic to the argument that you should be able to provide your kids with a place to live. (I am myself somewhat sympathetic to it.) But as long as there are people on the streets with not even a bed, it's immoral to twist this sympathy into a right to transfer millions of dollars in wealth to your kids in the form of an expensive house on expensive land. So, put a cap on the inheritable amount that makes it quite sufficient for reasonable living quarters, and heavily tax transfers beyond that.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that a serious question? Bill Gates provided a very valuable service that runs most personal computers to this day along with productivity tools that have improved almost every business in the world. He also built one of the largest companies in the world that now employs over 100 thousand people. If there is anyone who should be disproportionately rewarded it would be Bill Gates. He now has a large fortune, which…
Yeah, and he stopped doing all that in 2004. Why does he deserve the profits from the hard work done by thousands of engineers to make Vista, 7, 8, and 10, which he had absolutely nothing to do with?
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> disproportionate contributions Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people? And in the case of heirs, such as the Walton family, are they contributing so vastly more than the guy who mows people's lawns during the day and cooks their dinners in a restaurant at night? Or how about the Renaissance folks. T…
>Oh wait, let's talk nurses and schoolteachers. They pretty clearly contribute very heavily to society, and they get paid pretty poorly. Are they really contributing less, by factors of tens or hundreds, than Larry Ellison? I've been thinking about this lately. A schoolteacher generates huge value for dozens of people per year. A CEO of a big firm may generate tiny value for millions or billions of people per year. I…
So does it count as generating tiny value for millions or billions if you're actually forcing a customer to stay with your overpriced product when there are actually plenty of equal or better cheaper solutions?
I get what you're saying, but I think it would be a struggle to find many corporations whose actions are enough net-positive to society to justify their CEOs' compensations.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> disproportionate contributions Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people? And in the case of heirs, such as the Walton family, are they contributing so vastly more than the guy who mows people's lawns during the day and cooks their dinners in a restaurant at night? Or how about the Renaissance folks. T…
> Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people? Yes. That is because of of the impact of their actions. Let's take the example of a CEO of a major company. The difference between a good CEO, and a great CEO might only change the value of a company by 1%. But 1% of a 100 billion dollar company, is 1 billion…
There are lots of examples of consistently bad or self-serving behavior of banks - banks which get special benefits from the people, including quantitative easing (essentially the ability to print money). I find it incredibly difficult to believe that they are contributing to society in line with their compensation. In fact, I believe in some cases it's the opposite.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#156The richest 10% own 70-80% of the wealth in the U.S.
My point is that the entire wealth distribution curve should be looked at, and any serious discussion needs to go back to first principles and determine what the curve would look like in a fair society.
Of course there are wide philosophical-moral chasms between different notions of fairness, with HN readers, by nature of the hand that feeds them, skewed heavily toward the belief that market forces are the best arbiters of worth and fairness.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> disproportionate contributions Do you really argue that the people in the top 0.01% are contributing to society at a rate hundreds or thousands of times higher than the rest of the people? And in the case of heirs, such as the Walton family, are they contributing so vastly more than the guy who mows people's lawns during the day and cooks their dinners in a restaurant at night? Or how about the Renaissance folks. T…
>Oh wait, let's talk nurses and schoolteachers. They pretty clearly contribute very heavily to society, and they get paid pretty poorly. Are they really contributing less, by factors of tens or hundreds, than Larry Ellison? I've been thinking about this lately. A schoolteacher generates huge value for dozens of people per year. A CEO of a big firm may generate tiny value for millions or billions of people per year. I…
But is that a problem, really? Is it a problem if 0.1% of society have absolutely no lack of money whatsoever?
It sounds rather small to me, particularly since most of the money is a valuation of someone's job (or some other productive resource). Taking away the money is also taking away that someone's job.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
My guess is the opposite. The top people are the owners of very large, very often inherited, fortunes. Few people leave that group and few people enter it.
That’s wealth, not income. And if you own a large company, you have no income (beyond a salary) unless you sell equity. There are probably people worth $1B+ who aren’t in the top 0.01% because they’re money stays invested and they don’t pull income from selling.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Oh wait, let's talk nurses and schoolteachers. They pretty clearly contribute very heavily to society, and they get paid pretty poorly. Are they really contributing less, by factors of tens or hundreds, than Larry Ellison? I've been thinking about this lately. A schoolteacher generates huge value for dozens of people per year. A CEO of a big firm may generate tiny value for millions or billions of people per year. I…
You are giving the CEO credit for everything positive that the company does. Shouldn't some of the credit go to the workers? Not to mention, many companies are a net negative to society.
Re: Never mind the 1 percent Let's talk about the 0.01 percent (2017)
#160Every time you talk about the top 1% or even the top 0.01%, you eliminate an opportunity to talk about how you can really help the bottom 50%. By constantly painting things as hopeless and unfair, all you do is stimulate rage.
That rage needs to be there so that we can change the system that produces and perpetuates the unfairness. Rage is a tool for electoral mobilization.