Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 251 posts

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#151

Post by PlasticTank »

irjustin wrote: post #99
RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely asking. Do most of the population believe Singapore’s authoritarian government would stay benevolent??

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

> Is it worth it? None of the positives you described are exclusive to a totalitarian government.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#152

Post by hopefulcynic »

ajscanlan wrote: post #146
hopefulcynic wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most likely because Singapore is not also putting huge amount of people in detention camps and harvesting their organs. To be fair, the chinese call it de-radicalization/re-education centers, which they set up after a few extremist separatist attacks which killed hundreds of people. And as for the organs, much of the west ( especially in europe ) take people's organs without their explicit consent (it's called opt-…

> And as for the organs, much of the west ( especially in europe ) take people's organs without their explicit consent (it's called opt-out organ "donation". I feel like equating the forcible harvesting of organs to opt out organ donation is extremely disingenuous.

I have a feeling that "forcible havesting of organs" is just propaganda. I remember hearing about "forcible harvesting of organs" of the falun gong 20 years ago when the west and china were going through a difficult period of china's ascension to the WTO. And once the "difficulties" were overcome, nothing about falun gong and the "organ harvesting".

I also remember the propaganda about iraqi soldiers killing babies in hospitals which turned out to be a manufactured lie.

I'm sure the chinese government does a lot of bad things, like every major government, but the 24/7 ridiculous "news" we are getting now, is just propaganda.

I'm not a psychic, but I predicted the following when the trade war began.

1. "organ harvesting" ( to be fair I mistakenly assumed it would be tied to tibetans or the falun gong )

2. hong kong protest ( just like during the pivot to asia 5 years ago )

3. "chinese spies" or "politicians" magically defecting with outlandish stories

4. "international" awards ( nobel peace, think tank awards, whatever ) being awarded to politically expedient people

And if things really escalate, then I'll make another prediction - yellow peril style propaganda. And of course, the chinese will also escalate their propaganda.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#153

Post by ghostwriter »

viewbase wrote: post #150
Peckingjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely because Singapore is not also putting huge amount of people in detention camps and harvesting their organs. Maybe if they had the scale to do so they would, but that's not really the question when it comes to public opinion.

Genuine question: is there any proof for organ harvesting of Uighurs yet? A quick Google search on "Uyghur organ harvesting" leads to me tabloid sources and calls for investigations. Uighurs are Turkic people who are genetically different from ethnic Chinese. Transplant recipients must have similar genes in their immune systems to those of the donor. Otherwise, the body will reject the organ. This is also why blacks…

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam...

* https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-kil...

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#154

Post by philliphaydon »

bkor wrote: post #120
irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

> Safest in the world, hands down. Any figures to back that up? It's said that nothing gets stolen in Singapore, until you speak to Singaporeans. Bikes still get stolen for instance. The city seems super clean, but mainly because low paid workers clean the city really often. If a Singaporean visits another country you'll notice that they're used to the city being cleaned often, not so much that they're behaving diffe…

> It's said that nothing gets stolen in Singapore, until you speak to Singaporeans.

A friend of mine left her cellphone in a mall bathroom once, on the bench when she washed her hands. Went all the way home and realised she forgot it.

After ~4 hours when she reached the mall. It was still sitting where she left it.

> Your "Hawker Centers" have people in their 70s bent forward cleaning up tables to some earn money.

There is no social safety net in Singapore. So once you get old, there's no benefit or dole, or any government funded programs to give you a comfy life where tax payers pay for you. The idea is you life off your CPF. Because there are people who have no savings. The government subsidizes their salaries. If a company hires them then the government will pay a portion of the salary, this gives incentive to businesses to hire them.

You could raise taxes for businesses and individuals, but then who would move their business or come work in Singapore?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#155

Post by philliphaydon »

Grue3 wrote: post #143
xuki wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any figures to back that up? A simple Google search will show you Singapore and Tokyo are regarded as the 2 safest cities on Earth, which one is first depends on which report you read.

And Tokyo happens to be quite democratic and non-authoritarian. So an argument that people necessarily need Big Brother to behave falls flat on its face.

> So an argument that people necessarily need Big Brother to behave falls flat on its face.

Japanese culture is very different from pretty much any other culture. They respect each other and their country and environment. (except whales) They are raised from a young age to look after each other and respect each other. Something the rest of the world could learn from.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#156

Post by saiya-jin »

irjustin wrote: post #99
RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely asking. Do most of the population believe Singapore’s authoritarian government would stay benevolent??

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

Have you ever been to Switzerland? What you describe sounds like Suisse, but without all those dark aspects you mention. Open and just society that does treat people fairly. Super low criminality (compared to most world). Kids playing outside etc.

Maybe for US persons this seems like a paradise, but its not a unique place. I know where I want to raise my kids. It sure as hell ain't some artificial bubble like Singapore. Never have been there, plenty of colleagues did (or live there), cool and all but not great for actually settling there.

I value true freedom way too high.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#157

Post by SenHeng »

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

I’m an ex Singaporean and I remember the good old ‘politics is for politicians and civilians should stay out’ days in the 90s.

This _ruling party_ is benevolent when it suits them.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#158

Post by SenHeng »

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92
qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

Genuinely asking. Do most of the population believe Singapore’s authoritarian government would stay benevolent??

Sadly, yes. The majority Chinese population has the mindset that economics and security is more important civil rights.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#159

Post by humanrebar »

mclightning wrote: post #121
qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

>> Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety. That's a pretty reductivist way to define civilisation... From this definition; It sounds to me like there is a certain character/type of people who are redeemed as Civilized based on Govt definition. Thus justifies heavy control over society. "As a liberal", wouldn't it be more favourable to design the system around liberty…

> That's a pretty reductivist way to define civilisation...

Agreed. I would consider banning slavery as more civilized, but it is an expansion of civil liberties.

Same with having general freedom of expression. Any thug can ban "lies" he doesn't like. Kings used to declare themselves gods and execute dissenters.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#160

Post by ajdlinux »

Iv wrote: post #34
headsoup wrote: post #12

Is there a factsheet or written definition for what actually constitutes 'Fake News' or is it "news I don't agree with?" There were perfectly reasonable legal words available to describe fraudulent, false or factually inaccurate statements, it's sad that 'Fake News' has caught on so well as though it is a meaningful term.

> the law, known as the Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act (POFMA) Singapore is an english-speaking country, they used valid words to describe "fake news"

Malaysia, where Malay is the official language but much of the legal system still runs in English, passed a law that was in fact entitled the "Anti-Fake News Act 2018" and very much uses "fake news" as a legal term.

http://www.federalgazette.agc.gov.my/outputaktap/20180411_80...

Thankfully, the new government has repealed this ridiculous legislation.

Post reply on HN