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Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

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Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#151

Post by blackguardx »

jupp0r wrote: post #121
ng12 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all a SF problem, it's a metropolitan city problem. NYC, Boston, Denver, Austin, Boise, both Portlands, etc all have the same housing crisis. The truth is well-paying (i.e. middle class) jobs are coalescing in a small number of cities which have failed to adapt to the growth. As a software engineer this means I can either make great money in one of the aforementioned cities or a fraction of it in an "off-…

There are some cities that seem to have better salary/cost of living ratios. I'm thinking of places like Boulder, CO or Provo, UT.

Denver is generally cheaper than Boulder.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#152

Post by danschumann »

danschumann wrote: post #13

You could actually enforce the laws and put people in safe jails with better living conditions than they have now, outside the city limits. It seems like being more and more lenient is not a solution to a problem getting worse and worse.

Lets have compassion for the innocent people doing nothing wrong, who are confronted with injustices imposed upon them by people who are doing drugs and other criminal acts with impunity, while they're just going to work.

Compassion for homeless sure, but what about people who are victimized by the homeless, who have done nothing wrong?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#153

Post by danschumann »

dfcagency wrote: post #29
danschumann wrote: post #13

You could actually enforce the laws and put people in safe jails with better living conditions than they have now, outside the city limits. It seems like being more and more lenient is not a solution to a problem getting worse and worse.

I know you think this seems very logical, sane - but you have a tell "outside city limits" - you want these people rounded up and bused out. it's not a solution. Sane policing, treatment programs, and massive development is the solution.

"massive development" underestimates the mentally ill. "Some just want to watch the world burn", and they will do everything to mess up the world around them. It's best to simply enforce laws and ensure they cannot do that, or at least not downtown. Let them mess up the desert.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#154

Post by ng12 »

weberc2 wrote: post #108
ng12 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all a SF problem, it's a metropolitan city problem. NYC, Boston, Denver, Austin, Boise, both Portlands, etc all have the same housing crisis. The truth is well-paying (i.e. middle class) jobs are coalescing in a small number of cities which have failed to adapt to the growth. As a software engineer this means I can either make great money in one of the aforementioned cities or a fraction of it in an "off-…

> It's not at all a SF problem, it's a metropolitan city problem. NYC, Boston, Denver, Austin, Boise, both Portlands, etc all have the same housing crisis. I was responding to the claim that it's a state- or national-level problem. Perhaps you would argue that this meets some criteria for being a 'national-level' problem, but it's not obvious to me.

Oh -- do you mean to ask how state/national politics play into San Francisco's housing crisis?

California state law is a big part of the problem: it gives individual cities way too much power to decide what gets built and what doesn't, severely restricting supply. For example, neighborhood associations can filibuster new development into nothingness, even for contradictory reasons like not having enough parking but also not being public-transport friendly enough. Additionally, California has wildly skewed tax law that disincentivizes people from moving or downsizing (look up Prop 13). Add in a lack of public transportation, zoning restrictions, and massive corporate subsidies and you've got a housing crisis brewing.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#155

Post by confidantlake »

A huge problem is the lack of public toilets. When I first lived there, I got locked out of my apartment and could not find anywhere to go to the bathroom. I had to wait until my roommate got back. If I did not have a place to go back to, what could have I done except poop on the street?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#156

Post by ng12 »

jupp0r wrote: post #121
ng12 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all a SF problem, it's a metropolitan city problem. NYC, Boston, Denver, Austin, Boise, both Portlands, etc all have the same housing crisis. The truth is well-paying (i.e. middle class) jobs are coalescing in a small number of cities which have failed to adapt to the growth. As a software engineer this means I can either make great money in one of the aforementioned cities or a fraction of it in an "off-…

There are some cities that seem to have better salary/cost of living ratios. I'm thinking of places like Boulder, CO or Provo, UT.

https://news.kgnu.org/2018/08/the-affordable-housing-crisis-...

I believe that certain cities have better ratios but I'm also inclined to think those places are just slightly earlier in the cycle.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#157

Post by umeshunni »

paulddraper wrote: post #138
umeshunni wrote: post #83

More broadly, the San Francisco livability crisis is out of control. Poop is only a visible and easily disagreeable symptom of the broader problem. The local government can patch symptoms of the problem but some of them (housing, mental health, opioid epidemic) are state-level or national problems that the local government have very little power or ability to solve. Some of the law and order issues are issues the loc…

> state-level or national problems Sincere question: Why does San Francisco seem to be the only one with those news stories (not NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc.)?

While the problems are more global in nature, they have affected San Francisco disproportionately worse than other cities.

Some cities have been better at patching these issues than San Francisco has - e.g Austin, TX is forcibly removing homeless encampments from their streets. Seattle have revised zoning and is building new housing to offset housing shortages even though the local NIMBYs oppose muh gentrification.

San Francisco has the right combination of growth, politics and local sentiment that prevents these problems from being solved.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#158

Post by BurningFrog »

umeshunni wrote: post #83

More broadly, the San Francisco livability crisis is out of control. Poop is only a visible and easily disagreeable symptom of the broader problem. The local government can patch symptoms of the problem but some of them (housing, mental health, opioid epidemic) are state-level or national problems that the local government have very little power or ability to solve. Some of the law and order issues are issues the loc…

These arguments remind me of The Onion's classic "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens".

Which is to say SF's problems are definitely a result of SF policies! For housing specifically, only SF is responsible for making construction in SF near impossible.

The problems of the nation and state are of course also present there, but that doesn't change that SF is unique.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#159

Post by MisterOctober »

ng12 wrote: post #102
weberc2 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine (outsider) question: how is housing not a uniquely-SF problem? The rest of the country and even other parts of California seem to have affordable housing, at least relatively speaking. EDIT: RE downvotes, shame on me for not being familiar with SF politics, I guess. It is, after all, the center of the universe. (◔_◔)

It's not at all a SF problem, it's a metropolitan city problem. NYC, Boston, Denver, Austin, Boise, both Portlands, etc all have the same housing crisis. The truth is well-paying (i.e. middle class) jobs are coalescing in a small number of cities which have failed to adapt to the growth. As a software engineer this means I can either make great money in one of the aforementioned cities or a fraction of it in an "off-…

What's the other Portland, is it Portland, Maine? Sincere question

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#160

Post by dagav »

BurningFrog wrote: post #158
umeshunni wrote: post #83

More broadly, the San Francisco livability crisis is out of control. Poop is only a visible and easily disagreeable symptom of the broader problem. The local government can patch symptoms of the problem but some of them (housing, mental health, opioid epidemic) are state-level or national problems that the local government have very little power or ability to solve. Some of the law and order issues are issues the loc…

These arguments remind me of The Onion's classic "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" . Which is to say SF's problems are definitely a result of SF policies! For housing specifically, only SF is responsible for making construction in SF near impossible. The problems of the nation and state are of course also present there, but that doesn't change that SF is unique.

That Onion headline rubs me the wrong way... Just because a problem is unique to a country doesn't make that problem easily preventable.
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