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When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

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Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#151

Post by ClumsyPilot »

airstrike wrote: post #89
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A generation of lazy people who don't work hard" I am sorry for derailing, but how does that happen, did they come out like a faulty batch from a factory? The mantra of "It's important to work hard" needs to die. Today we have fewer friends than ever, population is unhealthy and the biggest killer of young men is suicide. Please don't perpetuate this nonsense. It should be: "Work smart, and look after yourself/ yo…

"A nation is born stoic and dies epicurean" – Will Durant, http://bit.do/stoicepicurean A more popular corollary is "Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times."

I feel most of these social theories have no basis is reality. Similar logic is used to argue that videogames cause violence, or (in Russia) that men become gay because it's cool.

They just 'make sence' to the people perpetuating them.

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#152

Post by OJFord »

willyt wrote: post #119
jamiegreen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should leave the EU because it was voted for by the majority

...consisting of ~1/4 of the population. Parliament represents the interests of all 65 million of us.

..consisting of the majority (over 72%) of eligible voters. That's a high turnout.

(FWIW I don't think a referendum should have been held in the first place, and an un-referended decision either way would have been better.)

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#153

Post by _visgean »

Despegar wrote: post #147
Reason077 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The Eurozone is fatally flawed because they share a currency but have no transfer payments between rich and poor members.” This is incorrect. The EU has substantial transfer payments. Wealthier EU countries (like Germany) subsidise poorer ones (like Poland) on the order of tens of billions of Euros annually. Regional development (subsidies for poorer areas) is the second largest EU budget line item after agricultu…

How much each member contributes to the EU budget is a drop in the bucket compared to the transfer payments I'm talking about (healthcare, social security, defense). The Eurozone should either go all the way like the US, or they should scrap the currency union. This halfway step only serves the wealthy.

Not true at all. I am from Czech republic and we benefited massively from these contributions. If I compare for example general state of infrastructure it is much better than in UK where I currently reside. All the train stations were rebuilt using EU funds. Also not sure what you are talking about "This halfway step only serves the wealthy.", not not really. Look at quality of life and GDP rise in post soviet EU countries.

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#154

Post by op00to »

Despegar wrote: post #147
Reason077 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The Eurozone is fatally flawed because they share a currency but have no transfer payments between rich and poor members.” This is incorrect. The EU has substantial transfer payments. Wealthier EU countries (like Germany) subsidise poorer ones (like Poland) on the order of tens of billions of Euros annually. Regional development (subsidies for poorer areas) is the second largest EU budget line item after agricultu…

How much each member contributes to the EU budget is a drop in the bucket compared to the transfer payments I'm talking about (healthcare, social security, defense). The Eurozone should either go all the way like the US, or they should scrap the currency union. This halfway step only serves the wealthy.

> halfway step only serves the wealthy

How?

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#155

Post by jacquesm »

user5994461 wrote: post #110
jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone will pay you billions to go kicking stilts there would be few who could resist. Betting against a nation state is usually a losing proposition, Soros happened to have large enough boots to do the kicking.

Noting the boots are not his and he risked nothing personally in the process. hedge fund = betting other people money.

I don't think they were complaining. Now they have boots too!

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#156

Post by barrkel »

Despegar wrote: post #105
elmar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wonder if this incident didn't happen, would the UK had entered the Euro and Brexit wouldn't be on the horizon today.

The Eurozone is fatally flawed because they share a currency but have no transfer payments between rich and poor members. So you have countries like Germany that are effectively subsidized by poorer countries. It's been a great setup for 20 years if you've been in the German capital class, not so great for anyone else.

There is no fiscal union, but there certainly are transfer payments done on a regional (not national) level; i.e. a region of a country (or the whole country, if it is particularly poor) can access EU funds for infrastructure and the like.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Regional_Developmen...

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#157

Post by [deleted] »

nostrademons wrote: post #72
andybak wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That phrase alone gave me a poor feeling about the whole comment. It was unnecessary and glib.

It was chosen deliberately. HN has a wide audience. Of the 4 causes I explicitly listed, most people will shake their heads yes to two of them, feel indifferent to one, and feel insulted by one. This applies regardless of which group you belong to. I have friends that would think "Yes, yes, it's the lazy youth today" and be gravely insulted by the implication that corporate leadership is incompetent; I also have frie…

[deleted]

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#158

Post by barrkel »

atmosx wrote: post #107
gumby wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They fellout of the EMS because their economy wasn not as tightly coupled to the rest of what became the Eurozone (whether that level of coupling is good or bad is a matter of disagreement). So if this incident hadn't happened it's likely they would have had a touch time under the Euro. For a weak economy IMHO the Euro is worth the disadvantages (and I happen not to consider the inability to do competitive devaluatio…

There is not an economist I know of, left or right wing, who believes that joining the EUR was beneficial for weak economies. Especially for Italy, proved to be catastrophic. Greece was always a basket case but Italy was doing pretty well before joining. Joining the EUR means literally giving up sovereignty. The Iron Lady explained that very concisely in her last speech as a PM in the House of Commons: “He who contro…

It's a two way street, the sovereignty argument. A bigger entity has different sovereignty to multiple smaller entities. The British pound is worth about half what it was when I first moved to the UK - that's not the kind of sovereignty that's kind to my pocket. A bigger currency is a more stable store of value for citizens. That's not worthless, independent of the lack of friction in international transactions - not a major friction online, but really nifty when you cross a land border every day.

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#159

Post by bArray »

Forgetting the politics of George Soros (which isn't suitable for HN anyway), I don't believe he is to blame for the UK government's questionable choices.

To put the estimated £3.3 billion loss into perspective:

* The failed NHS software update/upgrade project cost >£12 billion [0].

* The UK spends ~£9 billion a year (after calculating rebates) to be a minority voting block in the EU [1]. It's currently costing ~£0.75 billion a month to stay in the EU [2].

* The "divorce" settlement to the EU is currently set between £30 billion and £40 billion [2]. To put that itself into perspective, that is each person (including people on death's door and babies) in the UK (~70M) paying the best part of £600 out of their own pocket to the EU - something they never voted to be a part of anyway.

I could go on all day about the UK government's awful handling of money.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_failed_and_overbudget_...

[1] https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49563957

Re: When George Soros Broke the British Pound (2014)

#160

Post by ClumsyPilot »

andybak wrote: post #62
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A generation of lazy people who don't work hard" I am sorry for derailing, but how does that happen, did they come out like a faulty batch from a factory? The mantra of "It's important to work hard" needs to die. Today we have fewer friends than ever, population is unhealthy and the biggest killer of young men is suicide. Please don't perpetuate this nonsense. It should be: "Work smart, and look after yourself/ yo…

That phrase alone gave me a poor feeling about the whole comment. It was unnecessary and glib.

People perpetuating it would have us believe the human race has been degrading for a few thousand years:

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Socrates

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