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Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

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Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#151
post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

I agree it comes across as incredibly disingenuous and unnatural. It's like a salesperson saying your name over and over. It's not normal and FEELS like a performance to elicit a response.

I don't know why reasonable and honest communication is so hard for so many. You can speak plainly but kindly and be genuine in the process. Nobody likes being or feeling like they are being manipulated and nobody who uses "techniques" to do this is not obvious.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#152
post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

> Brilliant marketing move though, calling it "nonviolent communication", implying that any other form of communication is violent.

Thanks, I've been trying to put my finger on what irks me about this and I think this is it. I tend to have a strong negative reaction to people trying to control a conversation by framing it with loaded language. It's dishonest and manipulative and you see it all the time.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#153
post #16

I think non-violent communication is great when you actually have to ask someone to change something about the way they operate in the world. If you want to improve your relationships though, make rule zero "minimize the extent to which you require other people in the world to change."

[deleted]

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#154
post #7

I learned this at a company retreat at some point. We all kind of rolled our eyes and went along with the exercise. I now use it to great effect almost daily in both personal and professional relationships. It takes a little care and thought to apply it well. I've found when done effectively, it can unlock difficult conversations and turn even the most hostile interactions into productive conversations. You are demon…

Perhaps a better name would help, such as "Non-hostile communication". There is no such thing as violent communication, and the confusion between speech and violence is precisely what is driving the current pro-censorship wave.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#155
post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

In those situations, everyone is assumed to be an adult who is strong enough to take direct criticism. This is the example given in the article: [1. Observe Facts] Felix, when I see two balls of soiled socks under the coffee table, [2. Note Feelings] I feel irritated because [3. Uncover Desires] I want more order in the rooms that we share in common - [4. Make Requests] would you be willing to put your socks in the w…

Vs “quit leaving dirty socks under the coffee table.”

That’s direct & natural.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#157
post #16

I think non-violent communication is great when you actually have to ask someone to change something about the way they operate in the world. If you want to improve your relationships though, make rule zero "minimize the extent to which you require other people in the world to change."

>If you want to improve your relationships though, make rule zero "minimize the extent to which you require other people in the world to change." I actually think this is profoundly awful advice, that gets progressively worse the more intimate the relationship, as a fundamental function of human relationships is accountability.

I'd rather not have an intense sit-down over socks. I am not a boor for thinking conversational tricks to manipulate me into tidying up are the opposite of functional intimacy.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t misinterpret my words. But, OF COURSE nonviolent communication empowers the speaker. It’s about articulating the SPEAKER’S observations, feelings, needs, and recommendations and putting them in an order where you can understand the context. If you don’t communicate your feelings to other people, they will find it difficult to empathize with you.

The receiver empathizing with the user is not considered by users of NVC as an end in and of itself, but rather a means towards an end. The real objective is getting something from them other than their empathy.

Yes, but that's true of any conflict resolution framework.

The goal of using NVC isn't to get your way, it's to achieve a mutual understanding. What you do with that understanding is left to the reader.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^I echo this sentiment. Someone coming into my work culture with NVC would get politely dismissed in public, and absolutely SAVAGED behind closed doors.

Your workplace sounds toxic and full of backstabbing jerks. Am I misunderstand you? I can't imagine why you seem proud to work in such a place.

>>>Your workplace sounds toxic

Well, it's the Marine Corps. It ain't a rose garden.[1][2]

>>>full of backstabbing jerks

Actually quite the contrary. If anything we are well-known for our solidarity.[3] Assuming there aren't issues due to rank/the command hierarchy, most personal disagreements are handled face-to-face. People try to stiff-arm work responsibilities off to other offices but I think that is endemic to any ridiculously large and sluggish bureaucratic organization.

>>> Am I misunderstand you?

I think so.

It's a work culture that is optimized for conditions of 100% stress, where people's lives are at stake. We have a communication system and culture that is built to support the worst conditions, and honed over 225+ years. Even though we spend 99% of our time at, say, 10% stress levels in an office environment, it's easier to "dial down" our methods rather than "dial up" something less robust.

NVC strikes me as the sort of methodology designed and tested for a 5% stress office environment. If you attempted to employ it in the most critical communications scenario (arguably a contested beach assault), it would be an utter failure. Based on the OP's link, Steps #2 and #4 are the biggest failure points IMO.

"How do you feel about NOT retreating away from your objective?" "What are your thoughts on possibly doing a frontal attack on that machinegun nest?"

We would end the day all face-down in pools of our own blood trying to communicate like that.

Now, one might be inclined to retort that as our organization has a selection process that weeds out those who can't handle 100% stress, there is an inherent bias in the viability of our methods to integrate with the regular civilian workforce. But the counter-examples are our on-site contractors, some of which have NO military experience. Most of them still integrate just fine. Not all though:

IT Contractor A: A direct speaker. About 40yo. Also a jiu-jitsu purple belt. Kinda a "quiet badass". Fits in well.

IT Contractor B: A smarmy, weaselly character. Late 20's. Can't handle people speaking harshly.

These two had an exchange that essentially went like this:

Contractor A: "Hey I need X. And it's a time-sensitive priority."

Contractor B: "Could you possibly ask nicer next time?"

Contractor A: "Could you possibly do your job next time?"

Then Contractor A came back to the office and shared the story, to which pretty much everyone, from the 19yo Lance Corporals to 35+ guys felt "OMFG, sometimes I wanna throat-punch that dude (B). Ask nicer? WTF? Like people are gonna be asking nice for things if Chinese ballistic missiles are ever raining down on us? Does he not know where he is? If he can't handle it he should go back to hiding in an office in Northern Virginia."

We would go on to have numerous problems with Contractor B, most of them stemming from his "feelings". I'm not gonna go onto a rant about direct-vs-indirect counseling methods and some additional leadership anecdotes/case studies though. Hopefully that added some clarity.

[1]https://donshomette.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/rose1.png?w=...

[2]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJOCLU...

[3]https://www.forbes.com/sites/donesmond/2014/11/13/marines-ta...

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