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NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

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Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#151
post #76

The NBA boycotted North Carolina over HB2 (the “bathroom bill”), but doesn’t have a problem doing business in China. I hope they go bankrupt.

North Carolina didn't have 4 billion dollars and a 1.3 billion person potential market to dangle in front of the NBA is why.

No, the difference was that anyone with a whit of sense knew that North Carolina would bow down to pressure, and had more to lose from the NBA taking a stance.

And now, everyone with a whit of sense knows that China will not bow to pressure, and the NBA has more to lose from taking a stance.

For some reason, they aren't keen on tilting at windmills.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#153

It's not much of a dilemma though, is it? Already-rich folks kowtowing to fascists for a quick buck is beyond pathetic. US companies should stop targeting China for growth. If they don't steal your IP completely, they'll eventually freeze you out like they just did the NBA. It's happened to many companies and will eventually happen to you too. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

>> "... kowtowing to fascists ..."

"Fascists" is probably not a good description of the Chinese Communist Party, since Fascism is widely regarded as always and everywhere the diametric opposite/enemy of Communism and Communists. Examples of this include [0] and [1] and [2] and [3], which are the results of me googling "is fascism the enemy of communism?" for 5 seconds. Probably you mean "Totalitarians" or "Statists" or "Authoritarian Governments" or something like that.

This is pedantic but lots of the discussion downthread seems to hinge on this point of equating "Chinese Communists" with "Fascists," and that's imho a totally false premise.

Oftentimes people say things like "Well the Chinese are commies in name only" and similar, and this might be semi-or-mostly true, but it's a bit of a leap from there to calling them fascists.

[0] "Mussolini, with his anti-Communist doctrines..." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

[1] "In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany ... Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism". Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler..." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Adolf_Hitle...

[2] "Fascism is often considered to be a reaction to communist and socialist uprisings..." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communism

[3] "...in the early 1920s the Nazis were only one of many nationalist and fascist political parties contending for the leadership of Germany's anti-communist movement" also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communism

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#154

NBA? How about the US government? I know in another post I made the point that we could not just call out Blizzard or other game companies but instead have to call out ALL companies that do business in China and worse crack down on their own and related who dare say something China does not approve of. However the real party that has to be taken to task is our own governments. In the US that means both Congress and t…

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Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#155
Fun to see the NBA come up on HN.

One topic to bring up is how the NBA is targeting India as it's next country to try to bring basketball to [0]. What should happen to comments people might have about the India-Pakistan boarder conflict? Would the people here commenting about how rich people shouldn't be targeting China for money and growth complain about the NBA looking to grow in other markets? They've grown incredibly large in Europe over the past couple decades. Yes for money, but also popularity is fun to have, and amazing stories of players from those places.

I suppose my current stance on this, and a stance after only a few days and reading comments and posts from so many people which might change later or after responses to my comment here, is that the NBA should wave its hands and say the other countries can do what they want in terms of not even admitting the Rockets exist, or hide games completely, but reiterate that the players, GMs, and even owners, can say what they want, and that the NBA can and should continue to push the NBA to other markets.

[0] https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/asia/nba-india-intl-hnk-scli/...)

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#156

This reminds me of a story a teacher of mine told in a Advertising class, about a retailer that put pressure on a soda maker to lower prices, or they wouldn't give them share of shelf. Well the soda maker didn't agree, so they pulled the inventory out. Weeks later the retailer came back to invite them in at the same rates. Apparently the customers weren't happy that their favorite soda wasn't available, and made sure…

If every western luxury disappeared from China overnight, I think they'd struggle to come up with domestic replacements quickly enough.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#157
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it impacts US citizen's pension funds or other (public?) investing strategies ? It's not like financial assets aren't intermixed.

So what if it does? Some things are not worth that additional bump in stock prices.

$4B isn't a bump in stock prices though, right ?

Anyway, I am not crying over the top 1% losing money over that, I am talking about the paycheck to paycheck workers whose means of subsistence depends on their employers doing okay.

I am not saying Chinese products shouldn't be boycotted or that China shouldn't be pressured into aligning better with western values but who is going to pay in the end ?

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#158
post #20

The NBA really needs to grow a spine on this one. They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. It will just be one more reminder for the populace that their current government restricts them from luxuries the rest of the world gets to experience. And if that doesn't bother them, good riddance I guess, it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league th…

They are taking a stance: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/media/nba-adam-silver/index.h...

My I'm just feeling cynical, but this just sounds to me like an easy way to have it both ways:

1. Placate the US by putting out a public statement saying "We support freedom of speech for our people."

2. Placate China by using a backchannel to ensure that no one in the NBA actually uses this nominal freedom to say something that hurts China's feelings.

Actually standing up would require supporting a statement that had been said instead of offerring vague support for future statements which may or may not ever occur.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#159

I find it interesting that there isn't a Boycott / Divest / Sanctions movement for China, despite the human rights abuses they've always committed, in addition to more recently holding people in concentration camps. Surely their offenses are far more egregious than Israel's? Where's the movement for Hong Kong, for the Uighur? Does anyone know of such an effort?

Well, what would we do though? I mean, start boycotting China, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Rwanda, etc, etc etc.

I mean, I guess I should ask, in your view, where would that stop? Boycott every nation in the world with human rights violations?

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#160

That's the point. The scale of China's reaction is obviously not because of the tweet itself but because of the trade war. The message is that the US have a lot to lose if China starts to also effectively blacklist American companies like the US try to do to Chinese companies... Edit: Someone should explain why now on HN a comment like this one that simply tries to look beyond the obvious and to discuss current issue…

Well, we saw with the USSR that decades of Cold War couldn't be defused politically but Levis and Coca Cola went a long way towards bridging the divide. Now we have China which is basketball-mad but the problem is we can't use the carrot of the NBA to entice them towards us as long as the NBA is willing to trade their product under China's terms for a big enough paycheque. The NBA's attempt to paint themselves as a n…

This is a common self-aggrandizing misconception in the West, but Levis and Coca Cola didn't do shit to bring the USSR down. Neither did a half-senile actor from California banging his shoe on a desk, and yelling about tearing down a wall.

Glasnost, Perestroika, Afghanistan, economic stagnation, and the growing squeamishness of the country's leadership to use mass violence for political repression did.

If the economy of the USSR were growing 7% year over year, the Berlin wall would be six hundred feet tall by now, and communists would still be in charge of half of Europe.

Change in superpowers comes from within, not from foreign grandstanding.

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