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Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

bbc.com

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Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#151

Post by qwtel »

joyjoyjoy wrote: post #142
cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

" (and am currently doing something similar on the Black Sea coast of a different non-eu country)." Would you mind naming the country? Thx

Not OP, but probably referring to Georgia

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#152

Post by zimmerfrei »

Zenst wrote: post #136
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One comparable to USA TAX for nationals in that it didn't matter what part of the World you lived in or earned your money, you as a national would now pay tax. This is not the case.

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/poland-income-... "An individual is defined as resident of Poland, if at least one below-mentioned condition is fulfilled: the individual has closer personal or economic relations with Poland (center of vital interests) or The individual stays on the territory of Poland longer than 183 days in a given fiscal year." So if you have somebody working abroad, paying tax abroad…

The keyword is "center" (though something may have been lost in translation): the same treaty conditions against double taxation exist between other EU countries and what matters is always what is the country you have the tightest relationship with.

Sending home money is definetly secondary compared to pay for bills, rent, groceries, etc in the country you are actually living in.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#153

Post by ghaff »

tomp wrote: post #107
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there. Then they'll do what everyone else does shoot themselves in the foot by making everything expensive. Eventually the new growth will happen elsewhere and the cycle will repeat.

Does that actually work that way? AFAIK the US freedom of movement is mostly resulting in greater and greater concentration... the only non-urban areas that are getting more and more popular are general "nice" (i.e. geographically advantageous) areas, like Florida and ski resorts.

It's mostly more complicated than that.

I'm not sure I would call Florida geographically advantaged although a lot of people actually like it. (My understanding is taxes also make it attractive to retirees and second home owners.) Lot of growth in the desert Southwest (Arizona, Nevada) and Texas. It's mostly the Midwest that is conspicuously lacking.

[1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimate...

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#155

Post by [deleted] »

Zenst wrote: post #136
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One comparable to USA TAX for nationals in that it didn't matter what part of the World you lived in or earned your money, you as a national would now pay tax. This is not the case.

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/poland-income-... "An individual is defined as resident of Poland, if at least one below-mentioned condition is fulfilled: the individual has closer personal or economic relations with Poland (center of vital interests) or The individual stays on the territory of Poland longer than 183 days in a given fiscal year." So if you have somebody working abroad, paying tax abroad…

[deleted]

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#156

Post by joyjoyjoy »

qwtel wrote: post #151
joyjoyjoy wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" (and am currently doing something similar on the Black Sea coast of a different non-eu country)." Would you mind naming the country? Thx

Not OP, but probably referring to Georgia

Ah, yea. Could well be. Nomad Capitalist likes it: https://nomadcapitalist.com/tag/georgia/

It has some advantages. I like Tbilisi (the capital) but in the end it is too far off the beaten track to be my base. I need an airport. A good airport!

Ukraine is an interesting place too (not for taxes).

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#157

Post by h3333 »

cpursley wrote: post #25

A side effect of a stagnant economy and population shrinkage is that Bulgarian property is really cheap. You can purchase a modern flat starting around $15,000 (or rent for really cheap) in a ski community with a very strong remote worker presence (Bansko). If you do this right, you can also become a resident and benefit from a flat 10% income tax which is lowest in the EU. No affiliation; I just find this type of ar…

I once read a fictional story about a 20 year old selling his remaining lifespan except 3 months for 30 yen. Imagine how awful that life must be if it only sells for 30 yen. He didn't know it when he sold his lifespan, but his future self would have spent his remaining life in a hospital after an accident. The moral of the story is that it turned out to be a good deal.

Those flats are the same. The $15,000 is probably an absolutely fantastic deal for the seller. There is a reason why the apartment is so cheap. You get what you pay for and it's most likely crap.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#158

Post by lostmsu »

_hao wrote: post #12

As a Bulgarian living and working in London for more than a year now, I have no intention of going back. The IT sector in the country is booming and the money you can make relative to the cost of living is insane - you can live like a king. To me that is not enough. Money are not enough to make me go back, even though I miss my friends and family. One of the biggest problems for me is that the country is stuck in thi…

Do people speak Russian a lot in Bulgaria in everyday lifes?

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#159

Post by pdimitar »

A 39-year old Bulgarian working remotely (in the capital Sofia) for a generous company rewarding talent with good atmosphere and money.

I admire the more optimistic Bulgarians here but the article and most of them in this thread fail to mention the elephant in the room:

Corruption.

My mother regularly shops fruits and vegetables from the local market. Booths and stalls get closed all the time and there are scarcely any such sellers anymore -- and that's juuuust outside the so-called "wide center" area; there's plenty of shoppers around and the demand is always extremely high.

Reason? People from all sort of municipalities come around and demand all sorts of fines for alleged violations and they never explain which exactly; if you fail to pay, cops who just happen to be friends with those people will come along and will forcefully evict you as a seller from that market. When some of these people got to the police station to complain and demand actual reasons for their eviction, they literally got laughed out of the station with the threat of physical violence if they return. When they went to a local municipality, they were made to wait several months and by that time of course the fruits/veggies season was long over and those people lost a lot of money. And most could not recover to restart their business.

TL;DR: small racketeering, multiplied by hundreds. A lot of small businesses outside of IT die from a hundred racketeer paper cuts.

Things are still very much communist/socialist reality known from the Soviet times around here. "Knowing people" is still one of the biggest assets.

As a guy living in Bulgaria since birth I can see the tides turning VERY SLOWLY, but I fear that unless some real pressure can be applied to the politicians and various other gatekeepers, then nothing will really improve like ever.

To clarify: I don't disagree with the most of the optimistic takes in this thread; things really are improving and Bulgaria is an amazing destination in many regards. But do take everything with a bag of salt; there are unseen forces lurking underneath that don't give a crap about your well-being and will actively work to ruin it if they notice you.

Hopefully this adds some nuance and balance to a lot of comments suffering from a bit too wide-eyed optimism for my taste.

Re: Bulgaria is the world’s fastest-shrinking country

#160

Post by theflyinghorse »

lm28469 wrote: post #90
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there. Then they'll do what everyone else does shoot themselves in the foot by making everything expensive. Eventually the new growth will happen elsewhere and the cycle will repeat.

> And assuming the EU's freedom of movement holds eventually people and business will realize this and move there. Most people don't move to a country like Bulgaria just for a job. It's fine when you're 2X years old, can work remotely and have time to get into the culture, language, &c. As soon as you have a serious gf/bf or a family you can forget it. One of my colleague is Bulgarian, he moved to Germany because of…

Not feeling at home doesn't really ever go away, you just understand the culture around you better and can fit in better.
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