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Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

151–160 of 285 posts

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#151
post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Suddenly Google's ad profits make a lot more sense.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#152
post #104
post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#153
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

I dont even know where to start with this comment.

Could you try? As a (maybe naive, not upperclass) British citizen it seems pretty reasonable.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#154

Reminder again to never hold gift cards. I had a family member who was gited a $3,000 travel voucher with an agency - I told them to exchange it in for flights asap as you can book up to a year out, change the tickets later and it's better to be a creditor with a national airline than a likely-going-out-of-business-because-of-online travel agency

The gift card market just confuses me. Especially when it's people giving gifts to people (not corporate gifts), cash is something that has at least as much value as the gift card, is accept everywhere, isn't a liability on a balance sheet, and is easier to give.

Same, I really don't get gift cards as actual gifts. On the other hand, because they're less useful than money, you can often get them cheaper in some kind of promotion. I'm getting almost all of my groceries+fuel via gift cards which I can get from my car insurer with 5% discount. But there are many online markets that would probably give a better price of you have time to deal with them.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#155
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

I dont even know where to start with this comment.

You can start by agreeing with it. It's not just true, it's the fundamental reason the UK is in the mess it's currently in.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did, but you are correct that their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the holidaymakers. Meanwhile, Thomas Cook holidaymakers were anxious that they might be evicted from their hotels or charged again for their holidays. Holiday companies do not normally…

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and…

> The EU says if in practice you don't pay on or before 90 days you owe interest at a calculated rate on the due amount.

Interesting. Do you have a source for this?

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#157
post #104
post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

This seems more like experience with certain kinds of companies - I've worked with companies around the world and there are certain anti-patterns I've experienced everywhere which really have little to do with the nationality of the management. For example, idiot CEOs, nepotism and micromanagement are, unfortunately, international phenomena.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#158
post #139

Guardian reports: > Dozens of charter planes have been brought in from as far afield as Malaysia to assist with the mass airlift. Getting a charter plane has been quite difficult since the 737MAX grounding. Any excess capacity has been soaked up. There have been lots of unusual chartering by airlines that don’t usually charter. Air Canada had been using some, and it’s exceptionally rare for them to not use AC-branded…

Why are extra planes even necessary? There were already return flights planned, right? Why not have those fly anyway? Maybe they're owned by Thomas Cook and the crew won't get paid anymore, but it'd be nice if the government could step in and let those parts of the company continue operating until every is home again. That's much less disruptive than keeping the original planes grounded, and chartering different plan…

Licensing is probably the biggest headache I’d guess - being insolvent the airline won’t have a valid license to operate into those countries any more and civil aviation regulators are usually very strict on that sort of thing. But as you suggest, insurance and ability to pay landing and fuel charges (sometimes aircraft are impounded by airports for failure of the owners to pay these charges) are some potential issues too. Then the planes themselves may also be leased and so the owners of those planes would want paying too, possibly including any arrears, before allowing them to be used.

None of these are obstacles which couldn’t be overcome but it’s quicker just to use someone else who doesn’t have those issues.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#159
post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

As one who specialises in enterprise SEO. That is still an issue with many businesses, websites are still seen as just an electronic version of a poster on a bill board, its gradually changing. And Eu companies are even worse, a few years back I suggested a link from a German parents website to the uk subsidiary and was told the Head office lawyers where checking to see if they "where allowed" to add a link.

that's a german legal liability thing. not (just) european business generally being stuck in the 90s

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and…

I suspect that this might be a varies-by-country thing, certainly in the UK 30 days is the norm, 90 days would be a bit odd. But I think Italy are mostly 90 days (apparently due to that being Fiat's terms, and everyone else followed suit).

When I was freelancing for a big US corporate, sometimes it went beyond 90 days.

I wouldn't have minded if the contract had specified 90 day terms and payment had been timely after that. But the contract said payment would be made "promptly."

Sometimes the only way I'd get a payment was by hassling accounts and senior management day after day after day. It was a huge waste of everyone's time, and - unsurprisingly - I moved on as soon as I could.

UK clients would usually pay promptly on 30 days. Occasionally there were problems at the end of a quarter when VAT bills became due, but they were rare.

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