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Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

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Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#151

Post by veemacs »

selfawareposter wrote: post #135
tzs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn’t follow the story. Was Stallman taken out of context? Yes. This statement of Stallman's: > We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. has been reported in several places as Stallman saying Epstein's gi…

Except for the part where he got taken to a remote island by a billionaire and was presented with a very young woman who immediately wanted to have sex with him.

Hindsight is 20/20, scrutinizing our understanding of past events instead of making grandios assumptions is the key to realising justice. Misinterpretting the words of a man because you don't like the way they think is an injustice.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#152

Post by vunie »

claudeganon wrote: post #59
75dvtwin wrote: post #43

> Amongst my real-life friendship groups this sort of "hate mob" type stuff just doesn't exist You have great friendship groups. Do you remember, by any chance how this topic was handled in your discussions (I am genuinely curios) "... Brendan Eich is gone. The creator of JavaScript and co-founder of mozilla.org has quit as Mozilla’s CEO, forced out by the uproar over a donation he made six years ago to a ballot meas…

Honestly, I’m happy to live in a future where bankrolling the denial of other’s human rights is something that can cost you your job, even if you’re wealthy and powerful. No one would have questioned him being forced to resign if he had financed an anti-miscegenation initiative. It’s just that hatred of LGBTQ people is still normalized to the extent that people think you should be “given a pass.”

So what you're saying is that people should loose their jobs because they say something you don't like.

Democracy is what gave homosexuals rights and it doesn't work unless everyone gets to express their opinion. Even people you think are wrong.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#153

Post by michaelmrose »

fwip wrote: post #17
partialrecall wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like his real 'sin' is not being neurotypical. Should he try to have more tact? Sure, of course. But failing that, the correct response is compassion and gentle correction, not a witchhunt. Not driving him out of his jobs.

I mean, this certainly isn't the first time that he's publicly said that he thinks "consenting pedophilia" is 100% fine, and it's not the first time that people have told him "Hey, don't say that, you're gonna get in trouble." At a certain point it stops looking like ignorance and stubbornness and more like he's got a horse in the race.

Your unfounded accusation isn't acceptable. You ought to remove it.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#154

Post by miracle2k »

selfawareposter wrote: post #132
melling wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t follow the story. Was Stallman taken out of context? Anyway, he probably should have know better than to weigh in. One’s well thought out response and subtle points can often turn out to have a few holes. In fact... “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged”

Yes, but it was also awful in context. It was taken directly as the girl being “willing” when what he actually said was that she may have been coerced by Epstein into appearing to be “willing” to Minsky. It doesn’t help that he has a documented history of fucked up comments in this general area.

Should news outlets and social media personalities who do purposefully take this comments out of context (and I think there can be little doubt that it is done on purpose [1]) be punished?

[1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/famed-mit-computer-scientist-r...

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#155

Post by pvaldes »

codesushi42 wrote: post #78
esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

What the hell are you talking about? What intellectual level? Stallman is quoted to have said: Stallman wrote that “the most plausible scenario” for Giuffre’s accusations was that she was, in actuality, “entirely willing.” How is that a rational, defensible statement in any terms?

Is not defensible, is either true or false. Would be a perfectly rational defensible statement if the facts will prove that is true, and will be demoted if proven false. Is just an opinion based on speculative reasoning from somebody that (as everyone of us) could have an incomplete picture of the facts.

We know that we are in deep trouble when the new generations start solving math formula or hypothesis democratically, by the numbers of 'likes' and 'thumbs up' that they receive.

Is a popular opinion true automatically just because is emotionally satisfying to us, and hence is popular? Not.

As long as he assumes the risk to be corrected and wrong, Stallman has the right to express an discomforting ugly hypothesis or a discordant opinion. And is just that, an opinion. I have no reason to thing that is a dishonest one, that there is malice, attempt to defamation, or that there is a hidden agenda subjacent about it

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#156

Post by partialrecall »

selfawareposter wrote: post #132
melling wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t follow the story. Was Stallman taken out of context? Anyway, he probably should have know better than to weigh in. One’s well thought out response and subtle points can often turn out to have a few holes. In fact... “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged”

Yes, but it was also awful in context. It was taken directly as the girl being “willing” when what he actually said was that she may have been coerced by Epstein into appearing to be “willing” to Minsky. It doesn’t help that he has a documented history of fucked up comments in this general area.

> "she may have been coerced by Epstein into appearing to be “willing” to Minsky."

Is that not a possibility?

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#157

Post by ocschwar »

coolandsmartrr wrote: post #125
geofft wrote: post #56

Worth noting that (as far as I know) Stallman was not a paid employee of MIT, certainly not a professor or anything. He had an office because, I believe, Gerry Sussman (and probably others) thought he should have an office. He's listed as a "visiting scientist" on CSAIL's page: https://www.csail.mit.edu/person/richard-stallman He's around on the mailing list (mostly to reply to every mention of software with a questi…

A little tangential, but I didn't know there was a utility called `finger`. Is this supposed to be a profile directory envisioned for an Internet back when it was more decentralized?

Wow, I'm old

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#158

Post by fortran77 »

geofft wrote: post #56

Worth noting that (as far as I know) Stallman was not a paid employee of MIT, certainly not a professor or anything. He had an office because, I believe, Gerry Sussman (and probably others) thought he should have an office. He's listed as a "visiting scientist" on CSAIL's page: https://www.csail.mit.edu/person/richard-stallman He's around on the mailing list (mostly to reply to every mention of software with a questi…

Well, then, I guess Gerry Sussmann will have to go next!

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#159

Post by selfawareposter »

esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

If one of my friends started defending pedophilia and saying it’s okay if the children consent then they would swiftly not be my friend anymore.

Judging someone for an opinion is not wrong and hiding behind a veneer of dispassionate intellectualism doesn’t remove your responsibility for your own actions.

I find it’s mostly arrogant tech fools who think it does. This sort of behavior is how you end up with Stallman defending pedophilia, rape being debated in the LKML, and idiots like James Damore.

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