Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 160 posts

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#151

Post by jabl »

mnw21cam wrote: post #115
jabl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently back in the day they were seriously considering ClF5 as the next generation oxidizer for rocket propellants. Implying that the rocket exhaust would to a large extent consist of HF and HCl. Yikes!

ITYM ClF3 (Chlorine Trifluoride) which earned the now famous description "hypergolic with test engineers". https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2008/02/26/sa... Equally funny is where someone thought that it would be a wonderful idea to burn mercaptans in a rocket, which wasn't quite as toxic, but caused the test site to become a no-go zone just from the unbearable stench.

As described in Clark's book, ClF3 was discovered first (before WWII actually). But sometime later someone managed to synthesize ClF5 as well, which had slightly better performance as a rocket fuel oxidizer. Although it retained all the other fun properties of ClF3.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#152

Post by jabl »

sokoloff wrote: post #100
jabl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard the project has stalled. And with the current administration there's unlikely to be political pressure to get it rolling.

The concerns I have around the project are more in the FAA certification process than in the EPA. I don’t believe this is a partisan issue; it’s stalled under both Democrat and Republican administrations. I think that the 737-Max issue will put so much more spotlight and brakes on anything that seems remotely risky, that the alternative fuels program (which was already struggling as you note) is unlikely to make seri…

Last news I've seen is https://www.avweb.com/air-shows-events/unleaded-avgas-all-on...

There's also some news at https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/ , but nothing substantial..

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#153

Post by thedawner »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #112
dmix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is also deeply into monetizing Navy-UFO conspiracy. A lot of these otherwise sensible warfare blogs are getting heavily into this. I don't understand it. But clearly it attracts a big audience and they've always been a niche blog topic so I guess they like the attention.

I've ready Rogoway's articles on this. He starts from real and public announcements by the U.S. military -- which is pretty newsworthy -- and then he spends a lot of time trying to come up with sensible, scientific explanations. See for example this article that compares the sightings to recent designs for radar-reflecting balloons [1]. TL;DR: the Navy made this newsworthy. Rogaway just seems to be doing reasonable i…

Best reporting on the subject out there. He was doing it before the NYTs article on hard unexplained situations. Nothing about aliens. This dude who says he is monetizing it or spreading typical ufo junk is a total troll.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#154

Post by acqq »

ufmace wrote: post #109
acqq wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world is now in the longest stretch of world-wide peacetime ever in history. Peacetime where? There was constant war since WW II mostly directly or indirectly waged by the US.

Peacetime everywhere. The post-WWII wars are all tiny by comparison. The nuclear era is historically unprecedented in the total lack of direct warfare between major industrial powers.

Compare: the most recent war before WW I between the "major powers" (if Spain was "industrial" is another question, and also how major is also) was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

1898, lasted for 4 months, less then 4000 wounded and killed.

Compare that just with the US sanctions against Venezuela (again, not too major, but the US definitely is the only remaining superpower) at this very moment:

http://cepr.net/publications/reports/economic-sanctions-as-c...

"the sanctions have inflicted, and increasingly inflict, very serious harm to human life and health, including an estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017 to 2018; and that these sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions, to which the US is a signatory."

Just in one year.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#155

Post by exikyut »

_jal wrote: post #106
faizshah wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some cool ones here: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/fairchild/ Would be cool to see some old notebooks from Bell Labs tho like Ritchie or Thompson. I just found some old AT&T training manuals on Perl, TCP/IP, Bash, C and Unix internals, they are really cool.

Along the same lines, my bedside-book for the last few months has been Engineering and Operations in the Bell System[1]. It is... from another time. Both the quality of the engineering and the quality of the documentation simply don't happen anymore outside of very narrow niches. And then you look at the Death Star now, and their core competency is lobbying. Priorities certainly have changed. [1] https://www.worldcat…

Engineering_and_Operations_in_the_Bell_System_2ed_1984.pdf (47MB): http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/communications/westernEle...

Also at (previews faster): https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_westernEleEngineeringa...

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#156

Post by exikyut »

Aloha wrote: post #122
_jal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, my bedside-book for the last few months has been Engineering and Operations in the Bell System[1]. It is... from another time. Both the quality of the engineering and the quality of the documentation simply don't happen anymore outside of very narrow niches. And then you look at the Death Star now, and their core competency is lobbying. Priorities certainly have changed. [1] https://www.worldcat…

I have the full set of books in this series, took me a couple months to track down. There are no organizations left in the world like pre divesture AT&T - While I think divestiture was a net gain, it's clear that some things were not positive, and some stuff was irrevocably lost.

What were the other books in the series?

I've only read about the AT&T divestiture in the "pro-antitrust" light; that AT&T owned all the telephones, you weren't allowed to connect your own, etc etc. Where can I read other angles to this story?

Thinking about it, I wonder if this isn't a similar story to Eternal September.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#157

Post by Aloha »

exikyut wrote: post #156
Aloha wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the full set of books in this series, took me a couple months to track down. There are no organizations left in the world like pre divesture AT&T - While I think divestiture was a net gain, it's clear that some things were not positive, and some stuff was irrevocably lost.

What were the other books in the series? I've only read about the AT&T divestiture in the "pro-antitrust" light; that AT&T owned all the telephones, you weren't allowed to connect your own, etc etc. Where can I read other angles to this story? Thinking about it, I wonder if this isn't a similar story to Eternal September.

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - The Early Years (1875-1925)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - National Service in War and Peace (1925-1975)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - Switching Technology (1925-1975)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - Physical Sciences (1925-1980)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - Communications Sciences (1925-1980)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - Electronics Technology (1925-1975)

The History Of Engineering and Science in the Bell System - Transmission Technology (1925-1980)

There are two editions of Engineering and Operations in the Bell System one from 1983 and one from 1977.

Another one worth looking at is Transmission Systems for Communications.

For more information about divestiture, read Heritage and Destiny - https://www.amazon.com/Heritage-Destiny-Reflections-System-T...

At least some of these are available as PDF's from archive.org

Another thing looking at is back BSTJ articles: https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bstj-a...

AT&T was anti-competitive, but it also spent much money on the public good, its a mixed bag - we did lose something with divestiture.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#158

Post by Aloha »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #134
_jal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, my bedside-book for the last few months has been Engineering and Operations in the Bell System[1]. It is... from another time. Both the quality of the engineering and the quality of the documentation simply don't happen anymore outside of very narrow niches. And then you look at the Death Star now, and their core competency is lobbying. Priorities certainly have changed. [1] https://www.worldcat…

>the quality of the engineering and the quality of the documentation simply don't happen anymore outside of very narrow niches Wasn't Bell Labs a narrow niche at the time?

No, not at all

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#159

Post by tripzilch »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #94
dkersten wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson once said, even pilots aren't astronomers or astrophysicists and often don't know what they're seeing when they look at the sky.

I don't follow this line of reasoning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't astronomy the scientific study of celestial objects; and astrophysics is the branch of astronomy concerned with the physical nature of those celestial objects. Why would either of those be the right consultants for UFOs, which are decidedly not celestial objects.

I agree, should probably have been meteorologists. Most astronomers and astrophysicians aren't that much more educated on weird atmospheric phenomena, either.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#160

Post by faizshah »

exikyut wrote: post #155
_jal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along the same lines, my bedside-book for the last few months has been Engineering and Operations in the Bell System[1]. It is... from another time. Both the quality of the engineering and the quality of the documentation simply don't happen anymore outside of very narrow niches. And then you look at the Death Star now, and their core competency is lobbying. Priorities certainly have changed. [1] https://www.worldcat…

Engineering_and_Operations_in_the_Bell_System_2ed_1984.pdf (47MB): http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/communications/westernEle... Also at (previews faster): https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_westernEleEngineeringa...

Great find! Found some new bed time reading :D
Post reply on HN