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The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

newyorker.com

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Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#151

Post by Scoundreller »

saltcured wrote: post #73
Scoundreller wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of progressive property tax rates. Figure out the median property value, make the first 50% of that tax free. Then the next 50% is taxed at the previous rates. Then tax values above that enough to make up for it. Could apply the same idea to land value taxes too.

To have a progressive property tax schedule, don't you need the progressive scale to apply to the whole portfolio of holdings? It doesn't make sense to me for it to be applied per-property as this just creates a loophole to sub-divide property titles. Why should one person be taxed less to own many small properties than someone owning a single large property of the same total value? And if so, how does this get appli…

Or we just have a Universal Basic Income and tax everything without any exemptions.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#152

Post by Scoundreller »

the_trapper wrote: post #72
Scoundreller wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of progressive property tax rates. Figure out the median property value, make the first 50% of that tax free. Then the next 50% is taxed at the previous rates. Then tax values above that enough to make up for it. Could apply the same idea to land value taxes too.

The problem with property taxes as they are usually implemented is that they put a very high burden on farmers and are often passed on directly to renters by their landlords.

A farm is industrial property. If it’s highly valuable land, it’s either producing a high value crop, and can pay the tax, or better used for some other function.

If the farmer is struggling because of property taxes driven by their own increased property value... sounds like a good position to be in.

As for passing them on, that argument could be made for all taxes. If true, at least this structure would lower rents for low-value dwelling occupants and increase for those in more luxurious situations.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#154

Post by coldtea »

mantas wrote: post #126
coldtea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. Actually inequality (of percentage of the world's resources amassed) between poor and ric…

> Actually inequality (of percentage of the world's resources amassed) between poor and rich countries has increased as well. The get richer compared to their own past, but less than the world is getting richer overall. That's an interesting claim to make. China, India, Eastern europe... Africa is having a boom too. Ask any westerner who used to go on dirt cheap super long vacations. The today's gap is miniscule comp…

>That's an interesting claim to make.

Apparently true too. E.g:

https://ibb.co/gm33zJb

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#155

Post by aries1980 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #145
yomly wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and Germany is seeing a rise in populism too so maybe they're also facing similar macro trends... It's worth noting that both Scandinavia and Germany are far less economically libertarian than most Americans would palate too

Well they're seeing a rise in immigration (which economically speaking has the same effect as offshoring) which is large enough to offset the equalising effects of the welfare state, and while I'm not super up to date on their politics, I'd guess the welfare state might also be weakening because of the need to support the influx of new immigrants. Also, crime rises/falls depending on economic outcomes for the lower s…

> Well they're seeing a rise in immigration (which economically speaking has the same effect as offshoring)

Not really, because some or all of he income of these immigrants are taxed and spent domestically.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#156

Post by meshr »

gridlockd wrote: post #65
meshr wrote: post #21

You can "print" unlimited amount of money but Earth resources are limited, moreover its usage is overshot (Earth Overshoot Day is 29 July 2019). So the problem is how the money is spent. We should tax money that spent to decrease Overshoot Day.

Earth's resources are limited over a given timespan, but most of these resources are not exhaustible , particularly not hydrocarbons. Given that all human populations that have reached a certain standard of living so far have ceased to grow beyond replacement levels, overpopulation is likely not going to be a long-term concern either. It is therefore not a problem to overshoot for a while, assuming that we eventually…

Earth's resources are decreasing over a given timespan because we both spent exhaustible resources and produce wastes for future generations. It can’t be sustainable system.

There is no evidence that overpopulation is not long-term concern. Look at Africa, India, China

New technologies are not guaranteed. You can’t simultaneously give less and less time and resources to your children and ask them to be better than you. They will choose to continue your tactic until civilization collapse as future generations can't vote

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#157

Post by nugget »

fzeroracer wrote: post #134
mysterydip wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't some investments benefit society? For example: Invest in real estate that turns into housing or businesses that weren't there before, or investing into businesses so they have the money to grow to a larger building or hire more people to meet demand.

Well, sure. It's easy to say some investments benefit society, but most of the time they are solely for the benefit of the wealthy. One just needs to look at the land stratification California has been going through to understand why. Most of the issues they face are a result of the wealthy doing everything in their power to prevent land from being upzoned or rebuilt because that devalues their property or ruins thei…

A land value tax would fix this - the more land appreciates in value, the more property tax the owner would pay to the public coffers. California would also have to repeal proposition 13 which limits property tax increases. Proposition 13 is one of the biggest giveaways to the wealthy in the history of US tax policy.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#158

Post by Mikeb85 »

aries1980 wrote: post #155
Mikeb85 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they're seeing a rise in immigration (which economically speaking has the same effect as offshoring) which is large enough to offset the equalising effects of the welfare state, and while I'm not super up to date on their politics, I'd guess the welfare state might also be weakening because of the need to support the influx of new immigrants. Also, crime rises/falls depending on economic outcomes for the lower s…

> Well they're seeing a rise in immigration (which economically speaking has the same effect as offshoring) Not really, because some or all of he income of these immigrants are taxed and spent domestically.

Decreasing the cost of labour through immigration is the same. Most immigrants also send money back home. So yes it's the same effect even if the it's not quite the same amount.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#159

Post by mantas »

coldtea wrote: post #154
mantas wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually inequality (of percentage of the world's resources amassed) between poor and rich countries has increased as well. The get richer compared to their own past, but less than the world is getting richer overall. That's an interesting claim to make. China, India, Eastern europe... Africa is having a boom too. Ask any westerner who used to go on dirt cheap super long vacations. The today's gap is miniscule comp…

> That's an interesting claim to make. Apparently true too. E.g: https://ibb.co/gm33zJb

It seems to be comparing personal incomes rather than country-to-country difference. Isn't it? And it goes up to 1990 only. China and India boomed after that. Eastern europe was in the process of shrugging off their chains. Africa boom started more than a decade later.

I'm talking about GDP PPP grouped by country. Coming from eastern european perspective, the difference is much smaller than it was in 90s or 70s. Both in how close we're to western europe and us and how China or India or Africa got closer to us.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#160

Post by seanmcdirmid »

k__ wrote: post #139
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. They still need people to program the robots. So...uhm, we techies become the new poor...

So is this where the system breaks? The skill needed to keep it going even on the lowest level is so hight that you can't trick the people working at the lowest anymore?

It’s a temporary blip, until the machines can program themselves...well, even the rich people might be expendable at that point.
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