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Cloudflare S-1

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Re: Cloudflare S-1

#151
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just pay a dividend? That's what stocks are supposed to be, shares of ownership in legitimately valuable enterprises with return on investment.

The owners will make more money if they double the company's value than spend their profits on a 5% dividend to shareholders. Simple capitalism at work.

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#152
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technical fundamentals matter. Centralization of the entire internet behind a single entity is a _bad_ thing for people who care about technical fundamentals.

Exactly! I don't why Internet folks fall into this trap time and time again! It's probably simply because it is an easy and quick way to tell your boss your website is protected consequences be damned. I can imagine the next Edward Snowden will reveal the intelligence community's direct line into the traffic running over Cloudflare's infrastructure. Cloudflare is providing DNS and HTTPS services on a massive scale wh…

It depends on the topic of discussion. If we are discussing the viability of a company, and trying to project long term success, then this is all good news.

If you are discussing whats best for society and how these businesses impact those things, then this could be alarming news.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#153
post #129

Both CloudFlare and Zoom are pretty great products and as much as I applaud their team's IPOs, I'm worried that the vagaries of being a public company will result in the GOOG syndrome. That's where a company with a great product is forced to expand every quarter to the point that it becomes a frankenstein-ish hulking version of itself.

Why not just pay a dividend? That's what stocks are supposed to be, shares of ownership in legitimately valuable enterprises with return on investment.

No, the return on investment is provided by the claim on assets at dissolution. It can be realized in advance of dissolution (since, as it turns out, companies tend these days to be chartered for open-ended purposes and so not to dissolve when successful) either by trading the claim for money or by the company doing periodic partial dissolutions. The whole idea of public trading is to enable the first to be done efficiently, dividends provide the second, but there is no reason a firm must do both. A firm that does neither makes it harder to realize returns but some investors may be happy to trade that for what they perceive to be higher returns or better serving non-financial interests the investor has.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#155
post #74
post #62

Here's the meat and potatoes: > We have experienced significant growth, with our revenue increasing from $84.8 million in 2016 to $134.9 million in 2017 and to $192.7 million in 2018, increases of 59% and 43%, respectively. As we continue to invest in our business, we have incurred net losses of $17.3 million, $10.7 million, and $87.2 million for 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. For the six months ended June 30, 2…

What the heck happened to their OpEx in 2018?! They went from growing at 60% YoY in 2017 with an 8% Operating Loss, to growing 43% YoY with an Operating Loss of 44%. To put it another way, in 2018 they grew their revenue 40% (+$58m) and grew expenses 100% (+$115m). I mean, apparently they raised a huge round and felt the need to increase spending massively. And then saw slowing growth as a response? Was there a massi…

maybe those intel mitigations had a very heavy toll on ssl handshake perf?

I can easily see a cdn having to spend enough to double server capacity almost overnight because of a software performance change that can't be delayed.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#156
post #110

Here's what Cloudflare's CEO wrote on their blog: "In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained…

While I agree there is a risk, I think a lot of their free customers would either not be using SSL at all, or else would find it too complex to remain independent and just have a Facebook page instead, if Cloudflare didn't make that kind of thing easier. Neither seems like it would be better. Not to mention things like being able to resist a DDOS from anyone who dislikes you.

Sure, there may be some people using Cloudflare free services who would otherwise be doing it themselves, but I think by far the greater majority of their non-paying users are folks too small and/or non-technical to maintain their own site otherwise.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#157
post #74
post #62

Here's the meat and potatoes: > We have experienced significant growth, with our revenue increasing from $84.8 million in 2016 to $134.9 million in 2017 and to $192.7 million in 2018, increases of 59% and 43%, respectively. As we continue to invest in our business, we have incurred net losses of $17.3 million, $10.7 million, and $87.2 million for 2016, 2017, and 2018, respectively. For the six months ended June 30, 2…

What the heck happened to their OpEx in 2018?! They went from growing at 60% YoY in 2017 with an 8% Operating Loss, to growing 43% YoY with an Operating Loss of 44%. To put it another way, in 2018 they grew their revenue 40% (+$58m) and grew expenses 100% (+$115m). I mean, apparently they raised a huge round and felt the need to increase spending massively. And then saw slowing growth as a response? Was there a massi…

Arguably a lot of that R&D should be capitalized and not be on the I/S. Investments like that shouldn’t impact net income. I’m more concerned with G&A going up 500%.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#158
"Sure, this is another company that hemorrhages money, but that free DNS service is super cool!"

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#159
post #146
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you fully understand the problem. If I hit the big red button and just shut Cloudflare off, millions of websites drop off the Internet. It is a massive single point of failure, and as you point out, a vertically integrated service (DNS, DDoS protection, WAF, proxying, etc).

DNS is far from centralized and DDoS protection is something that small websites would have no ability to do on their own. It isn't just a convenience thing, it's a literally-impossible-without-scale thing.

but you are missing the forest for the trees.

small websites are not hosted by small websites, they are hosted by ISP and small CDNs. who have/contract their own dos mitigation services, which are now all dead because everyone settled for the one big cdn to cdn them all.

Re: Cloudflare S-1

#160
post #41
post #32

It’s odd to have these IPOs in the middle of August, in the middle of a super volatile market. I can’t help thinking that there must be a sense of urgency, based on the perception that this is the last opportunity before a bear market and much more modest (realistic?) valuations.

Or last resort because private money has dried up.

They just got an additional series funding and turn a profit year over year currently.
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