It's ridiculous that this is remotely controversial. "Freedom of speech?" How about the freedom to not obligatorily aid the organizing of white supremacist hate groups? Slippery slope's ass.
Terminating Service for 8Chan
151–160 of 1001 posts
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#152Very unpopular opinion. The internet should be free for everyone and no provider should have the ability to cut off services. The problem is not the platform but the people, hate the player not the game.
How do you filter spam if you can't moderate at all? HN only exists as a service because it's quite carefully moderated.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#153It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…
by not reporting on it, the public is not made aware of this very tragic problem which can in fact be improved by several orders of magnitude with the return of some simple political will. Political will requires media publicity, so in that sense, the media is doing the right thing here.
> with the return of some simple political will
Gun control is a "third rail" in many political jurisdictions in the USA. Many Americans will vote against any agent who would disarm them; those voters are unlikely to see disarming to diminish the (very roughly) ~0.000001% chance of death by mass shooting as a sensible--or even Constitutional--trade.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#154This is terrible. The chan boards are some of the last bastions of actual free expression. Here, if you post something that someone doesn't like, your comment is downvoted into oblivion. Case in point, I posted "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" and within 2 seconds it reached 0 votes. If you post anything anti-capitalist on this board (I'm pro-socialist) then there are paid trolls who will literally down vote you unti…
> I posted "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Not a particularly insightful comment :/
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having it out in the open also attracts the users in the first place.
How exactly is this stopping them? They didn't post this on Twitter or FB already but every news media person found his manifesto quickly - just like they always do. There will be another 8chan to fill that void soon enough.
>There will be another 8chan to fill that void soon enough.
8chan totally still exists. All CloudFlare did was essentially erase the link between their IP and "8chan.org".
It took them probably 15 minutes to "go back up", if they hadn't already been abandoning CF anyway.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#156I'm pretty sure more Twitter and Facebook users have become mass killers than 8ch users.
The first comment to the guy on 8ch who posted the manifesto was "hello FBI". Not a 8ch user but they don't appear to support shootings. I'm more familiar with 4chan shenanigans and they definitely don't support it, with any threat of real-life violence being met with something along the lines of "[alphabet agency] fuck off". Not saying they don't have crazies but every "social media" (and 8ch is social media, just an old fashioned version of it) site has crazies.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#157Who is going to deplatform Facebook and Twitter? After all plenty of shooters have used them too. Before the usual: " But 8chan is a cesspool of bla bla" Probably it is, but, either the users are doing something ilegal in the site and you close it if the owners refuse to comply with a legal request, or they are not doing anything illegal so they have to be left alone. For the "Free Speech is freedom from government p…
> For the "Free Speech is freedom from government prohibition and this is a private company" brigade. I dont want to live in a world where color people is being prohibited to enter a night venue, or gay people cannot order a simple cake, or YES, dude who think their race is more superior being able to blabber their nonsense online as long as it is nothing illegal. After all similar sentiments are expressed (veiled or…
> I think at some point it goes up against the "yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater" exemption of free speech.
You know where that phrase came from? It was coined in Schenck v. United States[1], where Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr convicted the defendant for publishing pamphlets opposing the draft in the first world war.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#158A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.
The problem is that Cloudflare keeps trying to position themselves as not being in the business of deciding what can be on the internet, but they have twice made the decision to do so. Also, since you mentioned it and hence made this disclaimer obligatory: I have zero sympathy for 8chan, and I don't agree with the views espoused there.
They are making it crystal clear that they "do not take this decision lightly."
Not everything has to be so black and white.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
by not reporting on it, the public is not made aware of this very tragic problem which can in fact be improved by several orders of magnitude with the return of some simple political will. Political will requires media publicity, so in that sense, the media is doing the right thing here.
> with the return of some simple political will Gun control is a "third rail" in many political jurisdictions in the USA. Many Americans will vote against any agent who would disarm them; those voters are unlikely to see disarming to diminish the (very roughly) ~0.000001% chance of death by mass shooting as a sensible--or even Constitutional--trade.
85% of the population approves of increased background checks for gun owners. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing debate.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#160Another way to view this would be, "Cloudflare ends support for mass shooting early warning system."
Warnings are only effective if people act on them.
Right, and in order for that to happen they have to be actionable.
If you have a place in which the common discourse includes hundreds of people saying "i'm going to murder someone tomorrow" in a mostly anonymous format, it's not really something you can follow up on without opening up an entire can of first amendment issues (I say this as a very pro-big government belief structure).
8chan's very nature prevents it from being useful.