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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#151

Post by norswap »

technotony wrote: post #22

The naysayers in the comment thread are missing the understanding that the fundamental technologies driving this are all moving exponentially. Beyond Meat's innovation came from a Stanford professor who is an expert in RNA molecules (he helped them figure out their protein structure/selection), impossible foods is a synthetic biology company. Exponential techs always underwhelm in the beginning but soon deliver more…

About the only technology that has ever improved "exponentially" for any amount of time is CPUs.

I kind of get your point, but couldn't you have said "the technology is going to improve" instead?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#152

Post by losteric »

intopieces wrote: post #144
zackmorris wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

While I don’t doubt your story and haven’t read your link, what is interesting to me is that I have been a vegetarian for 13 years haven’t had any of these symptoms. What explains the variation here?

Gut flora - you likely have a healthier microbiome, or at least one that was able to adapt to a vegetarian diet.

Microbiome variance is a relatively new area of research but studies have already highlighted links to IBS/IBD, autoimmune conditions, and psychological conditions.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#153

Post by chrisco255 »

drdrey wrote: post #148
chrisco255 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made a couple of invalid claims here: 1) Canola oil is one of the healthier oils. 2) Monounsaturated fats help fight heart disease. 3) Naturally occurring trans fat is the same as industrial trans fat 4) Red meat has health risks EDIT, included sources, with comments: [1] Canola oil may have dramatic negative effect on weight gain and brain health: "Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropat…

Red meat is classified as probably carcinogenic to humans by the WHO. https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

"This recommendation was based on epidemiological studies suggesting that small increases in the risk of several cancers may be associated with high consumption of red meat or processed meat."

Epidemiological studies are surveys. They are not scientific proof of anything. This is an incredulous position to be taken by the WHO and makes me seriously question their values. They state they are small increases of risk, but do not even go into confounding variables inherent in surveys. True science isolates a variable and proves that there is a causation. It does not do so by correlation.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#154

Post by annogram »

geddy wrote: post #120
zackmorris wrote: post #73

I'm excited for meat alternatives, but have 3 thoughts on them that I haven't seen mentioned yet (I'm 42): * Nearly all of the rangeland and high desert in the western US was destroyed by cattle and sheep grazing over the past 150 years. This is a billion dollar industry with the emotional buy-in of millions of people so I'm skeptical that it will be reformed in our lifetimes. * My digestive system got wrecked trying…

> someone will need to reform the federal food subsidies that keep meat an order of magnitude cheaper than it should be Sadly, as most of us probably know already, that would require the buddies of Big Agriculture to do work that directly attacks Big Agriculture. Won't happen, not now, not ever. There's simply too much money in it. I think the only thing that might shuttle this process along is that Big Agri starts c…

Insular behavior like this will eventually leave the USA in the dust. China is redoing their entire energy infrastructure and while they probably wont move off meat any time soon at least they have that going for them. Most of Europe and the rest of the Anglo-sphere will happily move to plant-based proteins and completely leave that industry behind. When some of the leading industries in the US are just not exported whats the status of that country going to be.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#155

Post by p1necone »

notJim wrote: post #124
technotony wrote: post #22

The naysayers in the comment thread are missing the understanding that the fundamental technologies driving this are all moving exponentially. Beyond Meat's innovation came from a Stanford professor who is an expert in RNA molecules (he helped them figure out their protein structure/selection), impossible foods is a synthetic biology company. Exponential techs always underwhelm in the beginning but soon deliver more…

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

I've had a beyond meat burger, I'm curious to hear the opinion of others that have had one too because I thought it tasted terrible. The texture was nothing like real ground beef and neither was the flavour. It wasn't good different either - I'd much rather have a regular bean burger.

I feel like it's all marketing and they're just riding the hype wave caused by other better products or peoples desire for one. (I assume the Impossible Burger is better - they seem to have gone into more effort to replicate beef, but I haven't tried one)

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#156

Post by asenna »

tptacek wrote: post #146
notJim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

"Veggie burger that tastes better" is kind of a big deal, because (to at least a first approximation) the only reason people don't exclusively eat veggie burgers is that they don't taste better.

I believe the parent meant these taste better than a regular veggie burger and not a beef burger.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#157

Post by maximente »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #87
omarhaneef wrote: post #11

I think the part that rings clearly in my head is the ethical part. I really cannot believe we eat animals. I know other animals do it all the time -- and I don't hold it against tigers and lions -- but its still strange to me that we, humans, do it. If you don't feel that strong surprise, then I think the other arguments may or may not work for you. But if you have that sense that it is strange and perhaps off, then…

>> I really cannot believe we eat animals I don't understand this. We are animals. Why is it specially prohibited to us that we eat other animals? Note also that, as animals, we are not plant-eaters: we can't survive on plant matter alone. We are made [1] to eat other animals. We are omnivores, yes? So why is it unethical for us, specifically, to eat other animals when it's not unethical for other animals? __________…

couple issues with this post:

- it's trivial to find a class of animals that doesn't eat flesh (e.g. elephant) so i'm assuming you meant to say omnivore here

- evolution doesn't "make" things in that way. it could be that it provided an advantage, it could be that it is bound to something else that provided an advantage, or it could be completely coincidental.

for example, suppose our optimal setup is eating 100% fresh spinach but we can live at 80% by eating non-spinach stuff including meat. so in that sense, we weren't "made" to eat meat. it's just adaptive for reproduction.

from a layman's point of view it was probably advantageous to be able to eat both things, but our guts do more closely resemble herbivores than omnivores (gorillas e.g. are almost purely herbivores)

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#158

Post by seisvelas »

moreranchplease wrote: post #55
TACIXAT wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficiency isn't really an argument that is going to get people to change their preferences. Case in point, Electron apps. Even if beef becomes the Electron of the food world, you know a ton of people are still going to consume it.

You don't think water shortages will change people's preferences?

No. I live in Mexico City, where it is not unheard of for the government to outright cut off the city water supply for days to account for shortages.

People's preferences haven't changed. Beef continues to be very popular, as do public fountains. The choice not to consume meat (at least here) is mostly associated with pretentious, upperclass people who like yoga and are keenly interested in social justice (there is even a word for this type of person: fresas, which literally means strawberries but here means, well, that type of person).

Eating or not eating meat is more about adopting cultural, class, and identity signifiers than any real correlation with the local water situation.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#159

Post by jdietrich »

chrisco255 wrote: post #153
drdrey wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red meat is classified as probably carcinogenic to humans by the WHO. https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

"This recommendation was based on epidemiological studies suggesting that small increases in the risk of several cancers may be associated with high consumption of red meat or processed meat." Epidemiological studies are surveys. They are not scientific proof of anything. This is an incredulous position to be taken by the WHO and makes me seriously question their values. They state they are small increases of risk, b…

You just cited an epidemiological study and an evidence review based mainly on epidemiological studies. What do you actually believe?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#160

Post by DangitBobby »

zackmorris wrote: post #130
landonxjames wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and a…

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

This is very interesting... I am a vegetarian who has been eating a ton of legumes the past few days and I've been having a bout of what I suspect is IBS. I should cut back on peanuts and see how it goes.

Coincidentally, I also had sleep apnea at one point, though exercise exercise (very minor weight loss) made it go away.

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