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Breaking a WoW addiction

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Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#151

Post by somethingdotcom »

I just wanted to add my 2 cents relating to gaming addiction. I've never played WoW so I can't comment on that. But I was kicked out of college indirectly due to my addiction to Counter Strike.

I dunno if the same is true for WoW but one of the reasons I believe Counter Strike is so addictive is the time you have to wait after you get killed, before the next round starts.

I believe this is due to the fact that variable reinforcement schedules are more resistant to extinction:

"Skinner also looked at variable schedules. Variable ratio means you change the “x” each time -- first it takes 3 presses to get a goodie, then 10, then 1, then 7 and so on. Variable interval means you keep changing the time period -- first 20 seconds, then 5, then 35, then 10 and so on.

In both cases, it keeps the rats on their rat toes. With the variable interval schedule, they no longer “pace” themselves, because they can no longer establish a “rhythm” between behavior and reward. Most importantly, these schedules are very resistant to extinction. It makes sense, if you think about it. If you haven’t gotten a reinforcer for a while, well, it could just be that you are at a particularly “bad” ratio or interval! Just one more bar press, maybe this’ll be the one!"

Counter Strike is a variable interval schedule. Once you die you have to wait an unknown amount of time before you can play again. This makes counter strike playing behavior more resistant to extinction and I believe one of the big reasons why people get so addicted to it. If you respawned the second you died in Counter Strike (as you do in deathmatch) I'm fairly positive there would be a much fewer number of people addicted to the game. I believe this is quite a big factor in addiction. I haven't heard of anyone addicted to any FPS deathmatch multiplayer game. I'm sure there are some, but much less so than games like counter strike where you have to wait.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#152

Post by forensic »

javert wrote: post #144
henrikschroder wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was just responding to somebody's sad claim that "life is meaningless." Then you completely missed the point of what forensic wrote, because he did not claim that. The problem with articles such as this, which is what both forensic and me addressed, is that a lot of people claim that time spent on video games is wasted, that time spent in any sort of rat race is bad, without any sort of backing for that claim. An…

No, you're wrong. The author's statement amounted to: "WoW is meaningless for me and negatively impacts my life." forensic's statment amount to: "Well, who's to say life itself is any more meaningful?" My response is: "Wait a minute, I think it is meaningful." And I pointed out that you can achieve happiness in life (and by that I mean genuine self-esteem, not some temporary hedonistic pleasure like you get from play…

Meaning is probably the single most subjective concept that exists.

You can't tell someone else what is meaningful for them, which is what the OP is doing and you are implying.

I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. That's the nature of humanity. We all find meaning in strange and unique ways.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#153

Post by klipt »

forensic wrote: post #5

Caveat: it's very easy to extend the criticism of WoW to life itself. Working all these years to be a paramedic, going to school, going to work, for what? To drive some people to the hospital? They're all just going to die anyway. Life is meaningless! What the author is really saying is: "I find more meaning in the real world than in WoW." But this isn't necessarily true for everyone. Having said all that, I think WO…

> What the author is really saying is: "I find more meaning in the real world than in WoW." > But this isn't necessarily true for everyone.

Sure, some people prefer the blue pill.

But the real world is a strict superset of WoW, and thus (to me) much more interesting.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#154

Post by forensic »

Hoff wrote: post #56
forensic wrote: post #5

Caveat: it's very easy to extend the criticism of WoW to life itself. Working all these years to be a paramedic, going to school, going to work, for what? To drive some people to the hospital? They're all just going to die anyway. Life is meaningless! What the author is really saying is: "I find more meaning in the real world than in WoW." But this isn't necessarily true for everyone. Having said all that, I think WO…

Working all these years to be a paramedic, going to school, going to work, for what? To drive some people to the hospital? They're all just going to die anyway. Life is meaningless! Ayup. But then I've brought a few of those folks back, too. Folks that were dead from respiratory or cardiac arrest, or were dying of anaphylaxis or severe asthma, or recognizing an impending fatal condition and just talking somebody into…

What's the point of saving someone's life when they are just going to get old and die?

("Meaning" is not something that you can prove to others. Many people would find your job meaningless, while you may find it highly meaningful. The point is that each person's search for meaning is very individual.)

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#155

Post by forensic »

klipt wrote: post #153
forensic wrote: post #5

Caveat: it's very easy to extend the criticism of WoW to life itself. Working all these years to be a paramedic, going to school, going to work, for what? To drive some people to the hospital? They're all just going to die anyway. Life is meaningless! What the author is really saying is: "I find more meaning in the real world than in WoW." But this isn't necessarily true for everyone. Having said all that, I think WO…

> What the author is really saying is: "I find more meaning in the real world than in WoW." > But this isn't necessarily true for everyone. Sure, some people prefer the blue pill. But the real world is a strict superset of WoW, and thus (to me) much more interesting.

You're just telling us what you personally find meaningful.

But this doesn't extend to others. Your argument is about subjective values - you value the superset - but this is wholly subjective as well.

Death is a superset of life, therefore I value death more than life, therefore you should kill yourself to find true meaning. By staying alive you're choosing the blue pill.

(I can make these arguments all day. You're never going to be able to prove to others that your form of meaning is somehow rational or logical. All of your arguments are back rationalization - postdiction.)

"I find the red pill more meaningful because it is redder than the blue pill and red is the colour of the sunset and the sun is really big." <-- This argument is no less arbitrary than your "superset" argument.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#156

Post by forensic »

JanezStupar wrote: post #105
scotty79 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just accept that is pointless after becoming aware of it but just stay for the ride?

Do you think that Paris Hilton is happy? Do you think that the OP's guild leader is happy? Man is a creature of creation, to be happy Man has to improve upon himself and the world, to create by definition one needs to have some values. Else we just become decadent and decadence does not breed happiness.

People in wow ARE creating. That's what makes it so addictive.

They are re-arranging the materials of the game to create something they desire.

This is the same procedure people use in real life - we rearrange matter and energy to create conditions we desire.

There is nothing inherently more meaningful in reality compared to fiction. All of these things are exactly as meaningful as individuals find them to be.

Some people value wow for itself and there is nothing wrong or incorrect about this. Does it scare you to recognize that there is no logical basis for action?

The basis is emotional. Meaning itself is a word we use to refer to that emotional experience that occurs when we begin to care about life. Some people find it in collecting stamps, some people find it in wow, some people find it in medicine, some find it in the game of being a corporate executive.

None is logically or inherently more meaningful than another. It all comes down to irrational human values.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#157

Post by forensic »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #50
smanek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone will eventually die anyway. And your reasons can just as easily be turned around. Why work hard to win at WoW? Cause you want to. Cause it is your dream. Cause you ever [sic] wanted to be lvl 80. etc. If your 'argument' applies equally well to any position it is completely meaningless.

> Everyone will eventually die anyway. Oddly enough, not everyone agrees with that. Some of them are even working on that problem.

But what's the point of immortality anyway? Life is just a meaningless sequence of cause-effect relationships. Immortality would mean being trapped by life, eventually you'll explore everything there is to explore in life and be drawn to explore death. The experience of death is more meaningful than life - it is true adventure. Taking a peek for yourself, seeing what's more. Life is pain, so immortality is an infinity of pain.

I can make these arguments all day. Immortality is not inherently meaningful.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#158

Post by forensic »

stevefink wrote: post #146

Haven't had a chance to read the article yet - but I already see where this is going. I essentially lost a chunk of my life from 21 to 23yo playing EverQuest with a guild that was rated one of the best to ever play the game. With that came the caveat of constantly being the first at conquering new expansions, leveling as fast as possible so you CAN conquer the new expansions, and end less other power play moves (ques…

Fires of Heaven?

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#159

Post by cheald »

cageface wrote: post #142
cheald wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's good money to be made, yes. Like the app store or Facebook games or whatnot, the best benefits are realized if you're a top-tier developer, but Curse ( http://curse.com ) runs a revenue-share program with addon authors. Donations don't cover much, generally, but Curse's payouts cover about half of my rent. I use the platform because they provide git repos, automatic release management, and issue tracking, but…

Interesting. I had considered writing some addons as a possible alternative to mobile app development for a little extra income but I gave it up because I assumed it wasn't viable. Glad to hear otherwise.

It's likely far less lucrative than mobile apps. I've got some exceptionally popular addons, but they aren't going to make me rich. I suspect the average developer with low-to-medium visibility addons doesn't make very good money with them.

(I've been meaning to get into mobile app development; I've written a free Android app, but I can't seem to come up with a good concept for something I could charge for)

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#160

Post by dteoh »

cheald wrote: post #138
cageface wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any money to be made writing WoW addons? My impression was that most people were doing it out of love and begging for donations just to cover bandwidth costs.

There's good money to be made, yes. Like the app store or Facebook games or whatnot, the best benefits are realized if you're a top-tier developer, but Curse ( http://curse.com ) runs a revenue-share program with addon authors. Donations don't cover much, generally, but Curse's payouts cover about half of my rent. I use the platform because they provide git repos, automatic release management, and issue tracking, but…

Didn't Blizzard at one point say no one can charge for addons or put in-game directions to donate or pay for the addon? How did Curse manage to get past this?
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