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Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

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Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#151

Post by detaro »

m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

If you count Google Home, Amazon Alexa, ... as IoT, you sure a critical mass hasn't been reached yet?

There's lots of interesting niches, the overall term "IoT" and what people use it for is incredibly broad (IMHO to the point of uselessness)

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#152

Post by downrightmike »

tialaramex wrote: post #29

This the closest we have so far to an answer to the point raised in the IETF 105 Technical Plenary a few days ago. Encrypting everything means that IoT devices represent an unknown threat - your "smart" TV connects to Sourceforge and downloads... something every week. What for? Your "smart" thermostat calls the IP of the vendor, maybe to get firmware updates, but it also calls the Disney corporation - what for? You c…

"We can teach vendors that this is a bad idea and they shouldn't do it, and (cross fingers) it might go away" If Mozilla puts the work in and the vendors have to do is copy it, then they'll copy it like everything else they use. FLOSS makes the net go round.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#153

Post by blackflame7000 »

godelski wrote: post #149
ripdog wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can root the device and replace the firmware, sure. Or do extremely difficult hardmodding to tap the data buses, perhaps. But both of those approaches are very difficult and resource-intensive. The first requires many, many hours of reverse engineering to find a security hole which allows you to write unsigned firmware to the device (or find a way to sign your own firmware and then upload it), then hack the fi…

Okay I guess that makes sense. If I'm understanding you could get that information but you don't have access to the memory addresses unless you crack the firmware? Though in the case of Mozilla, wouldn't that be open so this wouldn't be that big of an issue?

> you could get that information but you don't have access to the memory addresses unless you crack the firmware.

Correct, from the moment the IoT device puts a packet on the line, it is encrypted end to end. This is a fundamental aspect of TLS to prevent snooping. To view unencrypted data, you have to access it prior to being sent out on the network which requires you to gain root privileges on the IoT device.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#154

Post by blackflame7000 »

rusk wrote: post #91
mrmonkeyman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dudes, this is not IoT. These are appliances, robots.

No but as IoT you could leverage the power of "The Cloud"

Everything synergizes with "The Cloud". When you die, everything about you lives on in the great heavenly cloud.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#155

Post by godelski »

blackflame7000 wrote: post #153
godelski wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay I guess that makes sense. If I'm understanding you could get that information but you don't have access to the memory addresses unless you crack the firmware? Though in the case of Mozilla, wouldn't that be open so this wouldn't be that big of an issue?

> you could get that information but you don't have access to the memory addresses unless you crack the firmware. Correct, from the moment the IoT device puts a packet on the line, it is encrypted end to end. This is a fundamental aspect of TLS to prevent snooping. To view unencrypted data, you have to access it prior to being sent out on the network which requires you to gain root privileges on the IoT device.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#156

Post by noobermin »

tialaramex wrote: post #109
sp332 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't tell what data is being sent or retrieved, how will you prosecute them?

I can't tell what my 2028 model Foo Corp. Smart TV is sending to the HBO servers or why, it's technically impossible thanks to cryptography. But a Federal Prosecutor can tell a judge these are the only Smart TVs that do that, and he thinks it's because they're violating the Tialaramex No Snooping Act of 2025, so he wants a warrant to see what HBO receives. The warrant doesn't magically decrypt the packets - but refus…

In your utopian vision corporate executives actually face jail time for violating the law, that if anything seems a more difficult thing to accomplish today.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#157

Post by ololobus »

RandallBrown wrote: post #141
ololobus wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. My guess is that the industry of consumer electronics is moving toward the right direction. I have two pieces of IoT in my household: 1) Robot vacuum cleaner, and I am absolutely felt in love with it. My floor now is always clean during weekdays, when I am busy working, no more visible dust, crumbs, etc. I just have to clean filter and container once a week, otherwise it is fully autonomous. The onl…

iRobot has made the Braava for a pretty long time to do floor mopping. Or are you talking about a robot that does both?

Both will be cool, but anyway, to use Braava for mopping you should manually install and fill mopping module. You cannot leave it for a week of fully autonomous work. I have a Roborock S50 and it has a similar mopping cartridge, so actually it can do both, but mopping is semi-manual

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#158

Post by clairity »

ivelostn wrote: post #132
patentatt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of an aside, but I hope such a virtual dog sitter never comes to fruition for the sake of your dog. Dogs shouldn’t be alone for that long!

The dogs not alone. It has the robot. The robot could let you peer in remotely and say hi. The robot could comfort your dog for you while you’re away. The robot is there for your dog while you can’t be. The robot could 3D print dog friendly toys for it and feed it too.

so it's the robot's dog then?

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#159

Post by clairity »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

It's a great idea, but companies are building products that no one wants. Here's a few ideas of products / services / suites of items I would actually buy for my home: - Machine to completely do my dishes. End to end. It puts them from the sink to the dishwasher. Runs the dishwasher. Takes them out of the dishwasher and puts them in the cabinet. I do not care if this takes 5 hours - it can run overnight. I just don't…

i hate doing dishes too, and have to do them by hand since i'm an apartment dweller without a dishwasher. i've been waiting for this countertop, instant-heating dishwasher to be released: https://myheatworks.com/pages/tetra-specs

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#160

Post by Marsymars »

ololobus wrote: post #99
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

I don't think so. My guess is that the industry of consumer electronics is moving toward the right direction. I have two pieces of IoT in my household: 1) Robot vacuum cleaner, and I am absolutely felt in love with it. My floor now is always clean during weekdays, when I am busy working, no more visible dust, crumbs, etc. I just have to clean filter and container once a week, otherwise it is fully autonomous. The onl…

I also have both a robovac and some smart bulbs, but my experiences differ a bit:

1) I push the clean button on my vacuum when I'm leaving the house. Wireless connectivity wouldn't add anything for me.

2) Siri actually works really nicely for bulbs because it functions locally. As a non-iPhone/HomePod user, I'm stuck with Alexa, where every bulb voice command has an obnoxious delay for communication to the Amazon mothership.

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