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Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

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Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#151

Post by iihttfeer »

mindfulplay wrote: post #97
geofft wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, the US government would never violently expand its borders and encourage settlers from the majority race, oppress the existing people with police brutality, and track people through their smartphones.

You have all the right facts and stats and information but alarmingly lacking the right context in which these facts and stats apply. I am seeing this as a sign of a person living in absurd comfort (includes me too) and trying to understand a developing nation without having to go through any of the difficulties.

If OP is Native American or a minority, his or her perspective and context would be different.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#152

Post by chacha2 »

microcolonel wrote: post #101
geofft wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. I think we should do what's best for the world, not what's best for Americans, if those two are in conflict. I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world, and I think it has little enough value to Americans that I'm willing to abandon it. (I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of t…

> So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. Being able to say that sort of thing with a straight face is the tremendous privilege of being an American. > I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world In a vacuum I would not promote them, but in a counterintelligence scenario, I side with U.S. and Canadian intelligence services over the PLA, 100%. The t…

> Being able to say that sort of thing with a straight face is the tremendous privilege of being an American.

Because America is the only developed nation...

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#153

Post by iihttfeer »

_dczq wrote: post #51
geofft wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio so meaningfully resisted the government that he was convicted of insider trading for telling people his company would be successful when it actually relied on a government contract that was pulled in retaliation, which he couldn't use as a defense in court because of national security concerns? For which he served four years in prison, and Qwest no longer exists? That sort of mea…

You had to go back 12 years for your example. I think that speaks pretty loudly to the differences between countries.

Right now there are companies that want to sell to Hussein, but a single executive directive can stop that.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#154

Post by iihttfeer »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #144
bildung wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wild - this thread appears to be brigaded by pro CCP posters Is it so hard to believe that people not in agreement with you have actual reasons for that?

> Is it so hard to believe that people not in agreement with you have actual reasons for that? When people are saying that the US is a bad actor on the same level as China, yes, that should be extremely hard to believe for anyone with a reasonable knowledge of current events.

Maybe the posters are from the Middle East?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#155

Post by xtracto »

koolba wrote: post #89
geofft wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

> I don't think China is any more evil than the US. So if I'm okay with using infrastructure from AT&T and its Room 641A, Verizon and its Quantico circuit, and the various PRISM companies, I have no logical reason to object to infrastructure that may be similarly compromised by the Chinese government. One big problem is that there is no recourse against China. Unless you have some long term plans of joining their pol…

> Say what you want about the USA's intelligence organizations but at the end of the day there's a path for change.

Not for the majority of people in the world. Why should I care more about China than about the USA as someone who uses technology from both countries?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#156

Post by xtracto »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #112
yogthos wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, citizens of China have enjoyed a steady increase in the quality of life across the board, while the opposite has been happening in US. Meanwhile, US is an oligarchy and not a democracy. A long term study from Princeton shows that the main predictor of any law being passed is whether it's favorable to the rich. The public opinion does not matter: >What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainl…

citizens of China have enjoyed a steady increase in the quality of life across the board 3 million Uyghurs in internment camps have increased quality of life? ~400 million still stuck ineural farms? The gap between the to 1% in China and the bottom is vastly larger than in the US. And of course it is easy for China to “improve” coming from the ruins of the cultural revolution. There was nowhere to go but up.

You mean concentration camps? like... those ones the US has in the south states?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#157

Post by dang »

MiroF wrote: post #26

wild - this thread appears to be brigaded by pro CCP posters

This comment breaks the site guidelines. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow them when posting here?

When people's views are divided, internet readers are a million times too quick to assume that the other side is brigading, shilling, spying, astroturfing, promoting secret agendas, fifth-columning, foreign-agenting, or (this seems to be the latest favorite word) disingenuous—even when they have zero basis for thinking so. (Someone representing an opposing view is no basis for thinking so.) This is a cognitive bias. It leads people to imagine nefariousness and project it onto other users. That poisons the community—and this poison is actually the bigger problem by far. We've even seen individual users singled out for attack merely for a different point of view. In the limit case it even approaches mob behavior.

Therefore all HN users are expected to have the self-restraint to rein in this impulse, most of all on paranoia-prone topics like spies hiding things in technology, nations planting foreign agents, and all the rest of this. Yes, these are things; and internet commenters imagining them is also a thing.

Here are a few of the other explanations I've posted about this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20239719

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20199254

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19862158

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19404162

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19402447

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16632589

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16532039

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#158

Post by dang »

hih0 wrote: post #75
rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Every thread that paints China in a negative light on HN always follow the same pattern: - USA whataboutism - Mass flagging (resulting in the story getting knocked off the frontpage despite having a great upvote, comment and submission ratio) - Comments negative towards China receive 1-5 quick downvotes before slowly climbing back to normal again It’s really unfortunate that an otherwise well moderated community is s…

That is not at all an accurate description. This is a classic example of how people feel like the site is biased against their point of view even when it's the dominant one. It's known as the hostile media effect: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....

I've written tons about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme....

Here's a recent one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20314160

Your comment also broke the site guidelines against insinuations of astroturfing. People having opposing opinions on divisive topics is evidence of nothing other than that the topic is divisive. But the insinuation poisons discussions badly. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting to HN. More on that from a few minutes ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20370575.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#159

Post by fit2rule »

imiric wrote: post #64
fit2rule wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people are just sick and tired of American hypocrisy. The country that gave us the oppressive 5-eyes regime has not in any way gained moral authority to declare other nations' intelligence agencies involvement in industry to be immoral, or a 'security risk'. Until the NSA is disbanded, there is no security on the Internet. To explain the perspective and avoid the inevitable "you must be a shill for t…

Mostly agree with you, but on your last point, you wouldn't consider that ex-intelligence people might not be related to their respective agencies anymore, and that they abandonded them because they stopped believing in their cause or for another legitimate reason? Choosing to distrust them for life because of their past experience would be to ignore their talent and skill, which are very valuable in the private sect…

No doubt, subterfuge and intrigue are valuable skills in the private sector, but I really do think that people distrusting a person for life is one of the liabilities that must be borne when a person decides to work for a clandestine agency - especially one that has a long history of covert usurpation of institutions for its own purposes.

Intelligence agencies cannot, ever, be trusted by private citizens. The corruption of government begins with its secrets. That's the nature of the job, and its one of the reasons why there is a very strong motto prevalent in the spook industry: "you can never leave the company".

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#160

Post by dang »

boapnuaput wrote: post #98
geofft wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

Today is a Lucky 10000 day for you. We'll start with human rights in China [0] and look at some highlights. (Yes, every citation is to Wikipedia today. You've earned it.) * There are millions of people imprisoned in China. Could be as few as 1.5mil, but likelier around 3.5mil, [2] including likely over 1mil in "re-education" concentration camps in the Western region of Xinjiang. [1] By comparison, while the USA's leg…

Please do not haul pre-existing lists of links and talking points into HN threads. These discussions are supposed to be thoughtful conversations. Boilerplate kills that.

Also, nationalistic battle is off topic here, even in a thread like this one, and your comment is a huge step in that direction.

Also, please don't snark. That's in the site guidelines too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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