Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#151

Post by vraivroo » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #57

UweSchmidt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you ensure the footage is kept "at the school" (as if that was sufficiently limiting the exposure of the footage)? Who has physical access? Is the surveillance system cloud based? How is the school's security? Are her superiors legally allowed to watch the footage to evaluate performance? Could those overbearing aggressive parents eventually demand access to the footage, and worsen the whole problem? Are the…

We worry today about incriminating twitter/FB posts derailing careers. What will happen when people can retrieve your childhood and show that OMG you dissected frogs?

The easy and correct solution is to... not make incriminating posts.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#152

Post by Nasrudith » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

zeulhex wrote: post #96

What kind of society will we live in when the generation raised in this environment is in charge?

I can see two possibile outcomes named after the stereotypical age of the reaction. The "child" outcome where it is accepted as the norm or the "teenaged" one where they tear it down and call previous generations terrible/stupid people for being responsible for it.

Essentially that seems to be the pattern of resolution of changes - sometimes applied recursively in a cyclic way. One example is baroque vs austere in church design and iconoclasm.

I am hoping for teenaged ones to gain dominance since the people who look at the surveillance and say "What the fuck is wrong with you - you are literally acting like antagonists in a young adult science fiction dystopia!" seem to be a minority in influence currently.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#153

Post by Nasrudith » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

tastygreenapple wrote: post #121

The surveillance is less than worthless when schools are so constrained in their ability to meter out discipline. I went to one of the first surveillance schools in my state and I was bullied relentlessly, despite the video evidence the school was reluctant to suspend my attacker. This may be because my bully was black and from the hood and my school was sued by the NAACP to accept more black kids and keep the suspen…

The truth is it isn't there ability to hand it out as you would find out if you did wrong. The issue is they don't care if it doesn't go against their fucked up social order.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#154

Post by vraivroo » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

Arubis wrote: post #26

rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had these as kids. The number one problem with education in the US is the lack of discipline in the class room. Teachers spend all their time babysitting problem children instead of helping everyone else learn. Parents of problem kids do everything they can to push their children’s behavioral issues back on the teachers. Cameras in the classroom could go a long way to helping schools build record evidence t…

> Parents of problem kids do everything they can to push their children’s behavioral issues back on the teachers. Whew. That's a lot of labeling! And the solution is to build evidence to be used against these tiny criminals. Rather than just presume the kids are little shits on purpose and recording them to prove it, why not ask the kid what's going on at home? I'd bet real money that "lack of discipline" maps pretty…

Sure, because children don't have personality or autonomy. You only get that when you turn 18. /s

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#155

Post by vraivroo » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

LitFan wrote: post #102

panzagl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because discipline can be made to stick- Timmy can be suspended and when Mom comes in to say it can't be his fault, because that would imply it was her fault and she's never been held responsible for her actions before, oh well too bad video doesn't lie. Otherwise admin backs down about 50% of the time. If you want to point out that this doesn't help Timmy, I'd agree. It does help the other 29 kids in the class, thei…

It helps the other 29 kids in the class until there are altercations involving 5-7 of those. Then it helps the other 22 kids in the class. What's the endgame? Do you suspend half the kids in the classroom because they're causing a disturbance for the other half? Something this whole argument misses is that school is a great mechanism to teach kids to interact with each other and learn to solve problems. It's a bad id…

> Do you suspend half the kids in the classroom because they're causing a disturbance for the other half?

Yes, you do!

> that school is a great mechanism to teach kids to interact with each other and learn to solve problems.

What kind of utopian school did you go to? None of my schools did this, at _all_.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#156

Post by simplify » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #137

LocalH wrote: post #2

It's interesting the parallels that can be drawn to tobacco addiction , of all things. Hook 'em while they're young, and they won't think anything about expanding the surveillance when they're in power, because it's what they're used to, so why not if it can protect people?

Reminds me of this answer: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/33471

That story is entirely fiction: http://www.throwcase.com/2014/12/21/that-five-monkeys-and-a-...

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#157

Post by asark » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:15 PM UTC

mavhc wrote: post #72

dTal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Public schools have their problems. But most can be mitigated by "voting with your feet" I would like to note that this is tantamount to voting with your wallet. Areas with more expensive housing will have better public schools.

In USA, because they're funded by house taxes

Nah, it's the student (and parent) pool, mostly, I reckon. Selection bias, essentially. The bad lockdown-over-threats-of-violence-every-week sorts around here pay better than the good schools, by a large margin (they get more grants and such). The problem's the lockdown-over-threats-of-violence-every-week, not the money, and fixing that's a much, much bigger (and more expensive) problem than just evening out school funding. Goes like that on a sliding scale, middle-tier schools will also have a harder-to-teach population though may not be so obviously bad as the ones that are real wrecks. Usually a ton more English-as-a-second-language.

Some actual variety among the good schools where some truly are better, but the vast majority of the difference across the whole spectrum is selection bias, if we're talking graduation rates, college entrance outcomes, test scores, that kind of thing. All the usual measures.

[EDIT] point is, the main thing you're paying for is for your kid to be around other kids whose parents could also afford to pay more for housing, plus keep a couple cars running regularly to handle the commute, and so on, whatever the barriers happen to be for the district/schools in question.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#158

Post by odessacubbage » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:31 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #14

Currently trying to decide how to school my kids ages 3yr and 1yr. Public, private or homeschool. Parents who have been there, How did you choose?

if it's an option in your area, i'd recommend looking into a waldorf school. they have a lot of strengths that american public schools lack ime. perhaps one of the most important is that children have the same teacher all the way through k-12. it's hard to overstate what a big difference that makes.

as an aside unschooling often gets neglected from the public/private/homeschool dichotomy, for certain personality types it may actually work better than the other three although i can see why it is a somewhat terrifying option to consider.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#159

Post by nlarew » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

simplify wrote: post #156

SamuelAdams wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of this answer: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/33471

That story is entirely fiction: http://www.throwcase.com/2014/12/21/that-five-monkeys-and-a-...

I don't think the message of the story relies on whether or not scientists actually put a bunch of monkeys in a room or not.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#160

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Jul 03, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #117

xfitm3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for news only rewards paywalls.

What's wrong with that? They work hard to bring you that news. They should be paid.

The problem is that no news source is good enough to be anyone's only news source, and since most consumers don't have vendor relationship management software to keep them all straight, we can only keep track of a limited number of subscriptions, across all forms of media, regardless of what each costs in money.

Individually subscribing to 10 different paywalled news sites is not going to happen among the general public. Paying exactly the same aggregate monthly price for all ten, via just one redistributor, is more tolerable, especially if the customer can individually select subscriptions without forced bundling. Subscribe by checking this box; unsubscribe by unchecking it.

If I can sign up online, but have to cancel with at least one phone call guaranteed to last 30 minutes or more, I don't care if it's only $0.05 a month; I'm not buying it. It's not always the money cost. Sometimes it's the cognitive overhead or transaction friction. My use of the Internet lately seems to be governed more by the number of accounts I am willing to manage than by how much I am willing to pay, and the fragmentation is going to kill some of the sites that can't solve that problem.

When the NYT is in full control of its own paywall, you get nonsense like described here: https://dannysullivan.com/new-york-times-subscription-3480 [2014], where it's cheaper to buy the print version and just throw it away to get past the paywall, than to get the unlimited digital subscription. And this is likely fueled by a dark pattern: in order to get a price for print delivery, you have to call a phone number during NYC business hours, whereas you can just click to get an offer for all-digital access. It's only $8/4 weeks right now, which seems like a good money value, but I'm just not in the mood to worry about yet another website login.