An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs • Hacker News Board

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#151

Post by RobertoG » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:34 PM UTC

espeed wrote: post #145

RobertoG wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, so, this game with Iran, is motivated because "the West wants to see their potential released". When is the turn of the Saudis? Is Iraq potential totally released already? And the grandparent is the one missing the point.. I want to recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw Or the transcription: https://genius.com/General-wesley-clark-seven-countries-in-f... Your definition of the West…

Yes, PNAC's plan to dislodge the middle east was formed in the '90's. Their strategy and tactics included a series of kinetic wars that culminated with Syria, which they viewed as the most politically challenging situation. In contrast, Trump's strategy and tactics is based on economic force rather than kinetic wars. For economic force to work, the Iranian people must rise and act. Sanctions put the Iranian governmen…

Just to be sure that I understand your position: your opinion is that the motivation behind all this is "to see their potential released"?

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#152

Post by lonelappde » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:39 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #128

js8 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? I don't, and therefore, I think the sanctions are a predatory policy designed to break the country so it could be attacked by the U.S., where the military-industrial complex is getting too horny. I mean, I could understand sanctions in the…

> > Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand > Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? It worked on South Africa. My hope is similar sanctions could be put on Israel to force it to end the occupation of Palestine. But in these cases the sanctions are for specific wrongdoings that the State can address. The US sanctions a…

It worked because apartheid SA didn't have an oppressive government (for whites), it had a democratic opppressive populace. Blacks in SA were wholly disenfranchised who had near 0 participation in the national economy and wealth, so sanctions had no affect on them, but did affect the middle class who colluded in their oppression.

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#153

Post by espeed » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:41 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #116

espeed wrote: post #99

The 80 million Iranians are currently held hostage by two entities. First, it is their own government (which is by far not the worse in the world, being in Iran feels more free than one would expect). The Iranian people are not the target -- Persia is a rich ancient civilization that's being repressed -- the West knows this and wants to see the Iranian people's massive creative potential unleashed. Sanctions are desi…

> Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? I don't, and therefore, I think the sanctions are a predatory policy designed to break the country so it could be attacked by the U.S., where the military-industrial complex is getting too horny. I mean, I could understand sanctions in the…

> Action speaks louder.

You're right. For economic sanctions to work, the Iranian people must choose to act. They are in a unique historical position with an opportunity to choose and prove kinetic wars obsolete.

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#154

Post by yyyk » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:41 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #128

js8 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? I don't, and therefore, I think the sanctions are a predatory policy designed to break the country so it could be attacked by the U.S., where the military-industrial complex is getting too horny. I mean, I could understand sanctions in the…

> > Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand > Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? It worked on South Africa. My hope is similar sanctions could be put on Israel to force it to end the occupation of Palestine. But in these cases the sanctions are for specific wrongdoings that the State can address. The US sanctions a…

"It worked on South Africa... in these cases the sanctions are for specific wrongdoings that the State can address."

Apartheid South Africa was justifiably asked to change their entire government system, and to hand over power from the ruling racial minority to the majority. Iran - even according to Pompeo's maximalist "12 demands"[0] - is being asked for far less: none of the demands relate to internal affairs, much less asking the mullahs to lose influence on the government.

[0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/mike-pompeo-speech-12...

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#155

Post by senorjazz » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:42 PM UTC

espeed wrote: post #124

luckylion wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Iranian people are not the target -- Persia is a rich ancient civilization that's being repressed -- the West knows this and wants to see the Iranian people's massive creative potential unleashed. Given that "the West" is largely responsible for installing/supporting repressive Regimes in Iran, that sounds a bit too naive. "Wants to replace the oppressive Regime with an oppressive Regime that will do their bidd…

The US people fought several wars to free itself and establish its nation. And then it went back to Europe and fought WWI and WWII to ensure it's free. Iran is one the few places on Earth remaining to be free. But freedom is a choice, and the Iranian people have to choose it.

The US (same as all countries ever) fought their wars to push forward their interests, no more no less. Of course the narrative the country tells itself is different (same as all other countries who fight wars), but the narrative is false.

If what you said was true, that people being "free" was so important to the US and the reasoning behind all foreign policy, then please explain away slavery? Segregation? Discrimination? Explain the wars of aggression, which despite their operational Orwellian names, have had nothing to do with freedom, or freeing oppressed peoples. Explain policies of supporting brutal right wing dictators throughout Latin America, the training of death squads, the military school of the Americas, the CIA coups / assinations of democratically elected leaders, the torture prisons, the giving of asylum to those not only reported of being involved in the above, but charged (in their home countries).

If what you said was true, that the US really was the first, noble country doing everything to "free" oppressed peoples the above wouldn't happen, but it does. Unless you mean freedom is for some, oppression for others, that could be argued perhaps somewhat true, but if so, then it negates what you are saying.

This isn't to single out the US, as I said the same is true for all global power countries since the beginning of time, but the narrative that the US only starts wars in a selfless manner is quite frankly ridiculous and naive beyond belief to anyone who has even an elementary understanding of world history as opposed to home state propaganda

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#156

Post by senorjazz » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #139

espeed wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US people fought several wars to free itself and establish its nation. And then it went back to Europe and fought WWI and WWII to ensure it's free. Iran is one the few places on Earth remaining to be free. But freedom is a choice, and the Iranian people have to choose it.

Ah, but Iran already chose freedom. Unfortunately, they decided to use their freedom to take control of the oil in their country. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... "The 1953 Iranian coup d'état,[..], was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953, orchestrat…

They made the wrong democratic choice, they needed some freedom wars and liberty bombs to be shown who the right choice was

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#157

Post by barrkel » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 12:46 PM UTC

espeed wrote: post #153

js8 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sanctions are designed as [..] when the people amplify the pressure beyond the point the government can withstand Do you have any historic evidence that it ever worked like this? I don't, and therefore, I think the sanctions are a predatory policy designed to break the country so it could be attacked by the U.S., where the military-industrial complex is getting too horny. I mean, I could understand sanctions in the…

> Action speaks louder. You're right. For economic sanctions to work, the Iranian people must choose to act. They are in a unique historical position with an opportunity to choose and prove kinetic wars obsolete.

They are in a deal to prevent development of nuclear weapons. The US violated the deal, and now insists that they don't develop nuclear weapons.

The US just wants a war, it seems.

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#158

Post by EForEndeavour » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 1:01 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #95

reallydontask wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work we ran G-Suite. Lead Dev went to Cuba for a holiday and was not able to use any of the services. Great for him, not so good for a couple of angry customers that got no answers to emails. He set an out of office but also said to those customer that he would reply to any queries ... oops

The gmail app doesn't complain that it can't connect to its servers?

I'm guessing the dev quickly noticed the lack of connectivity and may have tried some obvious things to change his autoreply message, but those things didn't work and he & his company deemed it not worth it to try further.

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#159

Post by pnongrata » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #148

pnongrata wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile companies are hijacking governments by pouring billions of dollars directly or indirectly in order to push policies that benefit their profit-driven agenda. Big companies and governments go hand in hand, so the only way to enact some REAL change is to strike where the MONEY is and cut their economic power. A vote becomes worthless in a society where lobbying is legalized and media channels have economic int…

> strike where the MONEY is What does that mean, exactly? What specific actions do you propose people take?

A few examples of things we could do to stop a little the bleeding out of democracies:

1. Outlaw lobbying;

2. Tax the ass off the filthy rich;

3. Break up big corporations in tech, oil, media, you name it. No more monopolies or monopsonies;

4. Change the electorate system.

5. Increase work conditions. Higher wages, jobs availability, social welfare, etc.

The obvious takeaway is that if you reduce wealth inequality you get a healthier society and democracy.

Re: An Open Letter to Google and Apple: Stop Hindering Iranian Entrepreneurs

#160

Post by espeed » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #157

espeed wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Action speaks louder. You're right. For economic sanctions to work, the Iranian people must choose to act. They are in a unique historical position with an opportunity to choose and prove kinetic wars obsolete.

They are in a deal to prevent development of nuclear weapons. The US violated the deal, and now insists that they don't develop nuclear weapons. The US just wants a war, it seems.

Some people want a war. This is true in every government in every nation. Most people don't. Most people have grown war weary and are ready to move to the era beyond. Economic sanctions are an experiment toward that, an alternative to war that keeps the warhawks at bay and proves kinetic wars are obsolete.