Learning Synths • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning Synths

#151

Post by munificent » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #133

munificent wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-snarky question: how much music do you finish ? Every time I think about getting more into synths, I worry that I'll just end up endlessly noodling and never actually complete any songs. Years ago, I bought a copy of Reason and had tons of fun playing with it, but eventually I realized that after every session, I was rarely any closer to having a completed work I could share with others.

Finishing in music is one of the hardest things to do. My approach is to try to write something small every day (I call these daily loops), and then flesh my favorite one of those out into a full song every 1-2 weeks. I find that without some sort of system like that I also go down the noodling rabbit whole and never put anything out.

A system is a great idea.

I have managed to figure out a system for getting writing finished, so an option I'm considering is trying to apply that to music and see how it goes. But I promised myself I wouldn't do that until the current (giant) writing process is done.

Re: Learning Synths

#152

Post by abetusk » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 12:48 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #17

Question: All of "learn synths" tutorials I've managed to dig up are really "sound creation" tutorials. I have not found a good tutorial or paid online class on how to _play_ synths. Is taking a traditional piano course the best way to do so? Observationally, the play style seems quite different, even if some basics are the same. Most practically, I see synths typically played with right hand, left hand is on the mod…

What got me when I first started learning is to understand the difference between sound synthesis (which this link is basically for) and music composition. Maybe you're asking for something in between the basics of sound synthesis and full music composition. There's also all the different aspects of composition like drum arrangement, chord progression, melody creation, general music theory, etc.

I've collected some notes on what I've found so far [1] but be warned that I'm not a musician nor have I made anything that I would consider even remotely passable as music.

Here are some links that I found helpful:

* David Clements. He recreates many songs on his Studio Logic Sledge but it's applicable to other synths as well. Here's one where he recreates the opening to Stranger Things: https://youtu.be/HGufVBDfPvs

* InThread. A forum for Sonic Pi users. They have many coded examples of scores that can be used as a reference: https://in-thread.sonic-pi.net/

* Lines Forum. A forum of synth enthusiasts: https://llllllll.co/

* How Music Works. Goes from sound synthesis to composition/music theory: https://www.lightnote.co/

* Dylan Lane on melody writing. Don't let the Youtube personality or religiousity turn you off, she's knowledgeable and had many useful tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrLHhpp8-E&list=PL5PNXIkCYn...

* Signals Music Studio. More music theory oriented but I found it very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPDVo-7Ua28&list=PLTR7Cy9Sv2...

* Open Music Theory http://openmusictheory.com/

* Some other algorithmic music generation links: http://maximecb.github.io/Turing-Tunes/ , http://maximecb.github.io/Melodique/ , http://www.playonlinedicegames.com/mozart

[1] https://github.com/abetusk/dev/blob/release/notes/MusicNotes...

Re: Learning Synths

#153

Post by jdietrich » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 1:05 AM UTC

esistgut wrote: post #99

comboy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a different thing but I've had some fun with https://tonedear.com/ training my imperfect pitch.

I'm trying to learn guitar in my 30s and I'm really struggling with the ear training parts. Can you point other resources like this one?

The most useful tool I've found is Perfect Ear for Android and iOS. It's not as full-featured as GNU Solfege, but it covers all the important stuff and it's far easier to dip into when you have a spare moment.

https://www.perfectear.app/

If you're a late beginner/early intermediate player and trying to move past the chord shapes and scale patterns rut, I strongly recommend William Leavitt's A Modern Method for Guitar. It's hard - really damned hard - but it's logical, the difficulty curve is fairly linear once you get past the shock of traditional notation, it inculcates good habits from the outset and it provides you with a very broad base of technique that is applicable to all styles of guitar.

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar-Volumes-Complete...

Re: Learning Synths

#154

Post by asher » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #17

Question: All of "learn synths" tutorials I've managed to dig up are really "sound creation" tutorials. I have not found a good tutorial or paid online class on how to _play_ synths. Is taking a traditional piano course the best way to do so? Observationally, the play style seems quite different, even if some basics are the same. Most practically, I see synths typically played with right hand, left hand is on the mod…

Good question. Definitely learn the rudiments of piano playing, up to playing block chords (triads) with either hand.

Beyond that, I think they diverge too much. A lot of piano technique is getting both hands working together to play rhythm and melody - but generally synths are doing one thing at a time, and cooperating with other instruments.

A lot of classic synth lines are monophonic, aka "one-finger" lines, although to play them fluidly with one finger would be pretty hard. So pianistic skills would be wasted in this context.

When polysynths got common in the mid 80s, pianistic fingering of chords (but not necessarily rhythms) was used. I mean, to play the melancholy chords of "Drive" by the Cars, you need some of the skills of a pianist, but not rhythmic ones. You do need two hands.

(Of course the DX7 was played very much as a piano at times)

I do think you need the music theory though, such as awareness of chords and functional harmony.

Consider learning some of the classic synth basslines - they tend to have tutorials on youtube - like Material Girl or Tarzan Boy.

Re: Learning Synths

#155

Post by asher » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 1:40 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #141

anigbrowl wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. What sort of music are you into? If you like funk and want to play weedly weedly bass sounds, you buy a Moog monosynth and you're set. If you want to play trance or dance styles then you figure out arpeggiators and sequencers and get to know the synth architecture so well that you can program it on the fly, because many styles of music are about taking a simple repeating motif and redoing it in different…

Thanks! My first love is guitar, and I've been playing it (badly;) for decades. But I've just discovered synthesizers, got increasingly hyper excited, and it seems I can really really nerd out about them. Historically on the electronic side I've enjoyed Depeche Mode, some Daft Punk, and a mix & variety of other stuff; but I've just found synthwave, such as Kavinsky, and am somewhat in love:). I've been geeking out fo…

Regarding Depeche, people on Youtube have broken down exactly what each band member was playing during the 80s shows; you might find it interesting. The parts are simple. I don't say that to knock them at all, on the contrary it shows that pianistic excellence has little to do with great synthpop. Alan Wilder is a trained pianist and found little scope for his talents in those shows.

Of course the fast, repetitive bits were either on tape or sampled into the Emulator keyboards.

Re: Learning Synths

#156

Post by brokenmachine » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 6:52 AM UTC

munificent wrote: post #150

bnferguson wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question comes up a lot with synths and especially hardware and Eurorack gear. For me not being focused on finishing anything is what got me back into playing music (and eventually performing live sets). Previously there was so much pressure to produce end results I couldn't even get started and lost all joy in the process. At some point I got some hardware to just play with and never really looked up how to sav…

This is useful data, thanks. I'm going through a sort of mini-midlife crisis right now and one of the things I'm thinking about is whether I can make music part of my life again. I used to be in a rock band and it was tons of fun, but I'm in my 40s with kids so the logistics of rehearsing with other people and playing shows at night make that unlikely. Another path I'm considering is making electronic music. That's m…

You don't need much money to get started with a MIDI controller and VSTs, assuming you have a good PC because most people do here on hn.

Even though the hardware people seem like the most outspoken on most forums, I enjoy doing everything in the box now and my hardware mostly just sits under its dust covers.

I have an Ableton Push2 and it's an amazing piece of kit, more like an instrument than a controller. The layout makes much more natural sense to me than a keyboard, I think because I used to play guitar.

I'm the same in that I would like to have something at the end that I can share with other people, but the finishing stuff part I haven't quite worked out.

So far that has required more discipline than I have been able to muster, but I do feel I'm making progress and my workflow is improving.

Re: Learning Synths

#157

Post by gtani » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 7:50 AM UTC

Over in /r/synthizers, muffwiggler and gearslutz land (there might be other forums where the pretty hardcore hang out) they usually recommend getting a knobby synth and Ableton/logic/bitwig/reaper etc on an apple that won't overheat. So micro/mini brute, DSI mopho w/keys, monologue ($200 used or so), bass station2, ms2000, the Odyssey and ms20 recreations, there's a bunch.

Recommendations for my 2 favorite books, Snoman's book is great bc it covers the whole chain of what a EDM needs, samplers, sequencers, drum machines, DAW...: https://old.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/65o4r4/best_r...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/80bmj3/pickin...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7g3uv0/best_a...

Re: Learning Synths

#158

Post by arvinsim » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

shadowoflight wrote: post #86

fermentation wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks really great, but a little pricey. Any recs for someone who isn’t sure if they want to invest the cash into learning synthesis?

Just fyi, Syntorial is currently on sale at VST Buzz for half price (~$65USD): https://vstbuzz.com/deals/50-off-syntorial-by-audible-genius...

Thanks! I was thinking if Syntorial was worth purchasing after doing the free lessons. At half price, I say it is worth it!

Re: Learning Synths

#159

Post by Aromasin » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 9:03 AM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #123

Aromasin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or go a step further and build them yourself. You get to keep the house, but you won't be able to make much use of it because every available space is taken up with a random assortment of wires, op-amps, resistors and capacitors. DIY synth making will take up every bit of spare time you think you have left, and then some. Your hands will become a puzzle of soldering iron scars, and you'll slowly lose your hearing fro…

Spending all of your free time soldering is not the same as making music.

Implying I care about making music? It's a different hobby all together. They merge to some extent, but I enjoy designing synths much more than I do making music on them.

I enjoy the act of building. A person interested in writing software doesn't have to care about using the software. A person interested in fixing and building kit cars doesn't have to care about driving them. A person working out can be doing it because they enjoy it, not because they care about any end goal. A person baking bread doesn't always have to eat it. A person painting a picture doesn't have to adorn it on the wall when they're done.

There's a lot more to hobbies then just what you get at the finish line. The process is often much more fun than the result at the end of it, or what you can do with that end product.

Re: Learning Synths

#160

Post by louthy » Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 10:22 AM UTC

diydsp wrote: post #137

louthy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elektron have possibly to worst user interfaces of any hardware synths or drum machines that I've used. So much menu diving. I ended up selling my Elektron stuff and will never buy from them again. Most other hardware is much more intuitive and interactive.

I like my MachineDrum. Stuff only goes about 1 level deep. But this Analog Four mkII is driving me crazy because top level functions are not in the "right" places...

Machinedrum was one I sold :)