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US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

theguardian.com

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Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#151

Post by icebraining »

levelist_com wrote: post #80
maxheadroom wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any American "standards" for what a journalist is or isn't isn't really applicable to an international defendent, which Assange is, yeah? If so, then you must admit that America is imposing it's own (subjective and ever-changing, depending on the parties in power) view on the international theatre and that's where the concern starts to get exacerbated.

Assange broke US law, encouraging the theft of classified intel belonging to the US and then publishing it. It doesnt matter where Assange was geographically when he did so. Example if I were to hack a foreign gov't or company's computers while residing in the US and being on US soil at the time, I would still be breaking that country's laws and could be arrested and extradited to that country. This is an agreement m…

> encouraging the theft of classified intel belonging to the US and then publishing it.

Actually the order is the opposite: he received intel which had already been stolen - which is legal, see New York Times Co. v. United States - and then encouraged Manning to search for any more stuff, but never received anything more.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#152

Post by mLuby »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #29
blub wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't work, as most parties support this encroachment on civil liberties in the name of fighting various evils. I don't have any solutions and little hope. In the past it used to be that totalitarian governments fell because the population was poor and deeply unhappy.…

It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits. The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of la…

A window will re-open (maybe permanently) when the majority of humans live in space habitats. Because of the long distances between habitats[1], the relatively small populations of each[2], and the fragility of the habitat[3], I expect local governments to be more responsive to their citizens.

[1] parent nation takes longea to respond with overwhelming force/more time for local rebellions to solidify control

[2] not enough population to sustain a large garrison but also easier to get a significant portion of the population engaged.

[3] catastrophic sabotage is easier so discontent must be addressed more proactively. Also external applications of force may be limited to massacre or siege since boarding a hostile ship becomes very dangerous.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#153

Post by levelist_com »

dang wrote: post #149
_130o wrote: post #27

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads straight into repetitive flamewar hell. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Fair enough.

However, this is the type of sensationalist garbage that shouldn't be allowed here in the first place. How does this article promote intellectual curiosity?

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#154

Post by levelist_com »

icebraining wrote: post #151
levelist_com wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange broke US law, encouraging the theft of classified intel belonging to the US and then publishing it. It doesnt matter where Assange was geographically when he did so. Example if I were to hack a foreign gov't or company's computers while residing in the US and being on US soil at the time, I would still be breaking that country's laws and could be arrested and extradited to that country. This is an agreement m…

> encouraging the theft of classified intel belonging to the US and then publishing it. Actually the order is the opposite: he received intel which had already been stolen - which is legal, see New York Times Co. v. United States - and then encouraged Manning to search for any more stuff, but never received anything more.

>then encouraged Manning to search for any more stuff

So, he did in fact encourage the theft of classified info?! Doesnt matter if it didnt produce any results. There was still intent. Secondly, do you think Manning is the first he tried that with? Don't be naive.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#155

Post by icebraining »

levelist_com wrote: post #89
chrisseaton wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those links seem on first look to say ‘they need to follow all laws like anyone else would’. Was there something specific? I think people think there’s some kind of special legal status of being a journalist, like a police officer or something. I’m not sure that’s the case.

The gov't can arrest you any time they want for any reason they'd like. Courts ultimately decide whether or not it was lawful. To answer your question. also... "Under the First Amendment, laws "abridging the freedom...of the press" are invalid. Most states also have their own laws in place which protect reporters from having to disclose their sources and, in certain cases, unpublished materials. Some states have even…

“As the Supreme Court has accurately warned, a First Amendment distinction between the institutional press and other speakers is unworkable” -- Ninth Circuit, deciding that a blogger count as "press", in Obsidian v. Cox.

Your link doesn't in any way support the distinction you're making, because the issue is who counts as "press", not whether the press has some rights.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#156

Post by teachrdan »

umeshunni wrote: post #137
cyphar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a friend who broke their ankle and is in hospital overnight, you send a basket with soap and socks (or more likely, flowers). If you are the head of a news organisation and have a fellow journalist (who you've worked with in the past and gave you "the biggest scoop in 30 years") and is currently facing political persecution by the most powerful government on earth, you send lawyers to help him get out of…

It's funny you mention Appelbaum - he is another person who upset some powerful entities and had a smear campaign against him.

I have never myself heard that narrative about Appelbaum. It seems clear that, while some of the allegations against him were unfounded, others were made by women who publicly identified themselves and their experiences of being sexually harassed or sexually assaulted by Jacob Appelbaum.[0]

Is there really a narrative that these women fabricated stories of sexual abuse by Jacob Appelbaum because he upset some powerful entities?

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Allegations_of...

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#157

Post by icebraining »

levelist_com wrote: post #116
crdoconnor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Further, youre alright with Americans being exposed and/or killed b/c of it? There's no evidence of this. Since the leaks were about embarrassing unprosecuted US military murders of civilians arguably it saved lives by driving them to be more careful.

There is no evidence of this that you are aware of. >There's no evidence of this. Since the leaks were about embarrassing unprosecuted US military murders of civilians arguably it saved lives by driving them to be more careful. this is absolute nonsense

> There is no evidence of this that you are aware of.

Then if the prosecutors are unable to present said evidence, should he be free to go?

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#158

Post by levelist_com »

darkpuma wrote: post #136
levelist_com wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence of this that you are aware of. >There's no evidence of this. Since the leaks were about embarrassing unprosecuted US military murders of civilians arguably it saved lives by driving them to be more careful. this is absolute nonsense

Is there evidence that you are aware of?

Does there need to be? No. An E-3 isn't in the position to know whether it will or won't and its pretty fucking arrogant to assume that risk. Do you know that it saved lives? No you don't. You couldnt, and whether it did or did not, it wasn't Manning's call to make.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#159

Post by LMYahooTFY »

leftyted wrote: post #112

It remains to be seen whether the charges under the Espionage Act stick. They may not and I don't think they should. But it seems a bit breathless to declare these charges a "threat to journalism". Assange participated in the leaking of classified documents, which is different than simply publishing. There's a sharp divide in how people view Assange. Some buy into his hipster-tech-Jesus persona. These people think th…

"Assange participated in the leaking of classified documents, which is different than simply publishing".

Source?

The DoJ would love for you to testify for them as this is what they accuse him of doing.

""All information should be open" is a naive position"

Relevance?

He also does obviously doesn't believe this as literally as you're interpreting it, demonstrated by his own words and actions such as redacting.

"a > 0 chance that Assange was used by Russia"

This can be said about every publication ever made by anyone, ever. Even those with known sources.

"Basically, Assange did not "publish responsibly" and I believe his motivation was mostly personal fame."

Source? Relevance?

If I believe your statement is motivated by personal fame, why does it matter?

Can you point to a journalist who is, without a doubt, devoid of desire for fame?

You might view this response as mildly combative, but I'm trying to be succinct.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#160

Post by mc32 »

mLuby wrote: post #152
throwaway8879 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits. The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of la…

A window will re-open (maybe permanently) when the majority of humans live in space habitats. Because of the long distances between habitats[1], the relatively small populations of each[2], and the fragility of the habitat[3], I expect local governments to be more responsive to their citizens. [1] parent nation takes longea to respond with overwhelming force/more time for local rebellions to solidify control [2] not…

W re: space habitats (extremely fragile living environments), that’s difficult.

When picking astronauts or cosmonauts they test and screen against negative psychological indicators.

In these environments discontent is a separate issue form psychological issues. Regular discontented people are generally not suicidal. Given that, unless what these people are responsible for is ultra valuable, I think this condition works against them. Unless they have complete independence, they are reliant on the dominant organization who could take advantage of this weak position.

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