Apple Plans End of iTunes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#151

Post by manigandham » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 4:11 AM UTC

octorian wrote: post #92

manigandham wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since HN likes technical analogies: why do you use a RDBMS instead of flat files? People don't care about how the files are stored, and they shouldn't need to. We've seen this in everything from music catalogs to file sharing to productivity software. We want content organized logically with metadata, tags, folders, lists and search that's completely removed from the physical location. Let the computers do what they'…

> We want content organized in a logical manner with tags, folders, lists and search that's completely removed from the physical location. The problem is that there's a lot of room for interpretation as to what is the best way to actually translate media metadata into an organizational scheme. Furthermore, the most appropriate interpretation is DIFFERENT depending on the type and/or genre of the music. Most metadata-…

The whole point is you can structure it however you want because of the separation between logical and physical representation. Some players are better and more flexible than others but that separation is still a requirement to offer any kind of rich interface beyond just files on a disk.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#152

Post by manigandham » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #133

manigandham wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since HN likes technical analogies: why do you use a RDBMS instead of flat files? People don't care about how the files are stored, and they shouldn't need to. We've seen this in everything from music catalogs to file sharing to productivity software. We want content organized logically with metadata, tags, folders, lists and search that's completely removed from the physical location. Let the computers do what they'…

> People don't care about how the files are stored, and they shouldn't need to. The second clause of this sentence is a pretty good software design value. The first part is overgeneralizing at best. Some people care very much about where in a folder/directory system their files are stores. I'm not just talking about HN audiences, I'm talking about actual people I've observed from personal acquaintances to real live u…

The separation between logical and physical data is a very old concept used to enhance UX everywhere and has been the general trend for decades.

Most people are not concerned about files, they want music. Tracks, playlists, artists, albums, etc. That's how they think and interact, and this abstraction provides that rich interface. That's why it's so seamless to switch from iTunes to Spotify where everything is streaming, because the basic primitives are not files.

If you do want to handle the raw files then there's nothing stopping you, but it's definitely a tiny minority.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#153

Post by BigJono » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

arafa wrote: post #131

stevewillows wrote: post #115

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It depends on the version, but you can really trick out iPods. I've got an iPod Video (5.5) with an iFlash Quad [1] (up to 4x micro SD cards) with a 2000mAh battery, running Rockbox [2] I also replaced the rear panel since I didn't need the beefy 80gb version, and also the lock / headphone jack so they were both solid black. Rockbox is excellent because it runs off of a basic folder structure, but also has a library…

Seems interesting, especially since I used to use Rockbox. But my iPod Classic/6G is in the Rockbox unstable category and has apparently been that way for 2 years. Bummer, I still use mine all the time. :(

I've been using Foobar2000 with some iPod plugin to sync my iPod classic for as long as I can remember. It's never failed me yet. That could be another option.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#154

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

RickS wrote: post #91

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #30

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Why?

I work on cross platform design for a fortune 500. We keep our eye on this kind of thing. In conversation, the consensus among my peers was that the separation between iOS and OSX is destined to be impermanent. Phones are becoming more complex, and more integral to our every routine. But more significantly, they're raising a new generation of digital natives that have different expectations about UI and its scale, de…

I see a conversational, transactional OS leading the way to the next generation of UIs. No more cockpits. Not sure Apple has laid any groundwork for that. Amazon is positioned.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#155

Post by SomeOldThrow » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #40

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an app which organises your music for you How do you figure? Itunes is completely unaware of most qualities of music, in fact nearly everything unattested in metadata.

I don't know how you manage your music, but when I use iTunes I just drop it on the icon and it gets filed away (organised) for me.

Ahh I see what you’re saying and I don’t particularly care where the audio is sourced from, so long as I can’t accidentally delete it. The file system is not designed for many dimensional indexing, it just indexes by path. You need software that query to make sense of thousands of files.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#156

Post by rusk » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #143

rusk wrote: post #39

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Except that you need developers to build an ecosystem and Apple is currently alienating them in droves. developers developera developers as a wise man once said

I'm not seeing any decline in enthusiasm for iOS development, but maybe that's just me. In any case, you can develop fully featured projects for iPad on the web too, you don't even need a Mac for that, let alone an iPad.

> you can develop fully featured projects for iPad on the web

Oh goody

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#157

Post by manigandham » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:40 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #97

ken wrote: post #85

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Since 10.4, the Finder has had Smart Folders for this. (I believe Windows got a similar feature in Vista.) Apple even bragged that it worked "Just like iTunes" when they introduced it. This geek doesn't understand why we need two nearly-identical systems. Once you make the more-general form, refactor the prototype to use it! Normal people wouldn't need to "use the filesystem" any more than they do with iTunes now. Ju…

Where are these smart folders in native Windows? The closest I see is a “saved searched” and this is really more obtuse than creating a playlist.

Windows 10 calls them Libraries. Open your explorer and it's in the left sidebar. You can create new ones to group files and folders together regardless of where they physically reside.

They are already used by Windows to provide the major Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos, etc. locations.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#158

Post by mac01021 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

> Without iTunes, customers can manage their Apple gadgets through the Music app.

For a moment, I thought it sounded like a good plan.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#159

Post by wtmt » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 7:31 AM UTC

The only feature I want back is full app sync with a computer, like it used to be some years ago (both transferring from the iOS device to the computer and back from the computer to the iOS device). This was removed when app thinning was introduced, and partially retained in the iTunes version for enterprise.

This saves bandwidth when managing multiple devices, makes setting up a new device a whole lot faster (than waiting for apps to download), offers control on the app versions and also helps in cases when some developer removes an app from the store because they want customers to buy another app or a differently named one.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#160

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 10:52 AM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #110

scarface74 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want normal people to use hard links? But iTunes didn’t “slurp up and rename files” unless you enabled the option for it to manage your underlying file.

> You want normal people to use hard links? You miss the point with this question. A media player managing playlists certainly can. Or it can manage m3u files. Or it can put them in an sqlite db. Or ... You posed as an intractable problem unless we adopt iTunes thinking.

What magical thing do you think iTunes is doing besides managing playlists and syncing?