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Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

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Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#151
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do need to be convinced that nuclear is better than natural gas. In calm winter nights, nuclear is competing with natural gas, not wind. And because of fracking and horizontal drilling, the electricity prices have fallen in deregulated markets like the midwest, and electricity revenues have dropped precipitously. When you have a plant that's all capital and O&M with very low fuel cost (like a nuke), this unexp…

And considering the usual ways giant industries choose to "reduce costs", it's a bit unnerving for the rest of us. Blaming the costs on regulatory compliance bureaucracy is one of those things that pro-nuclear people really need to stop saying, even to the extent that it's true (which is less than they think). Distrust of big corporations is as high as distrust of government, and for good reason. No one wants to live…

> That said, nuclear will never, ever be able to achieve either the real or the apparent risk levels of a wind farm or a bunch of rooftop solar panels.

I'm going to go ahead and point out that more people die falling off their roofs installing solar per kWh than have died per kWh from decades of nuclear operation [1]. Denigrating that data as mansplaining seems pretty anti-scientific. Both death/kWh rates are nearly zero compared to fossil fuels.

Apparent risks, now that's a real problem. Can be solved with PR and education.

Check my link in the previous post. You'll see that the industry is writing down in good detail exactly how it plans to reduce costs by increasing procedural efficiency without reducing safety.

To just say that appropriate safety has to be expensive, and any attempt to fix it is unsafe, is pretty bold, especially in the face of what the climate scientists are predicting with continued carbon emissions.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-d...

[2] https://ourworldindata.org/what-is-the-safest-form-of-energy

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Westminster Hall has been single purpose for a while. Since the late 11th century. Perhaps that's the answer. If waste is stored in a warehouse next to the seat of government, I doubt there will be short-cuts, neglect and cost savings to the same degree as say putting it on the Cumbrian coast. https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/pal...

You know Westminster palace is in dire need of repair and debating in the house of commons had to stop due to water flooding in through the roof recently? So yes there probably would be 'cost savings'

Although Westminster Hall is on the estate and is part of the palace in terms of tours and so on, it isn't the part they want to refurbish.

It's too vast to be useful for much, but it does illustrate that the columns and so on in most buildings you do use are not actually obligatory (it doesn't have any). It's a bit like those huge buildings for building space rockets and jet liners, except built hundreds of years before the people who invented those were even born.

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#153
post #97
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also overestimate the amount of waste. Very little waste is produced. Also, the only safety feature needed to store nuclear waste is water.

Keeping the contaminated water out of the groundwater is the big problem.

No, it's not. I never said anything about the ground, contain the water & waste in a tank.

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#154
It’s too late for nuclear. We’re facing 1 meter sea level rise within 20 years.

When human civilization collapses I’d rather have a field of unused PV battery cells leaking, than nuclear waste from all the meltdowns around the world.

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#155

It’s too late for nuclear. We’re facing 1 meter sea level rise within 20 years. When human civilization collapses I’d rather have a field of unused PV battery cells leaking, than nuclear waste from all the meltdowns around the world.

While I agree about not wanting nuclear waste, a sea level rise of one meter within 20 years is way above the general scientific prediction. In the last 17 years the rise was pretty stable at 3.3mm per year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#156
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And considering the usual ways giant industries choose to "reduce costs", it's a bit unnerving for the rest of us. Blaming the costs on regulatory compliance bureaucracy is one of those things that pro-nuclear people really need to stop saying, even to the extent that it's true (which is less than they think). Distrust of big corporations is as high as distrust of government, and for good reason. No one wants to live…

> That said, nuclear will never, ever be able to achieve either the real or the apparent risk levels of a wind farm or a bunch of rooftop solar panels. I'm going to go ahead and point out that more people die falling off their roofs installing solar per kWh than have died per kWh from decades of nuclear operation [1]. Denigrating that data as mansplaining seems pretty anti-scientific. Both death/kWh rates are nearly…

It doesn't matter if it's technically correct, from a certain perspective. What matters is that when you say something like that, you come off like a smug mansplaining dudebro who treats anyone who disagrees like they're an idiot.

It's not a science problem, it's a sales problem. And if you want concerned environmentalist-oriented people to come to your side, you do not do it by mocking their stupidity with a ridiculous-sounding "fact". Doesn't matter if that "fact" is true. Is your goal to convince environmentalists to support nuclear power over solar, or to prove how much smarter you are?

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#158
post #23
post #4

Haven't nuclear waste recycling and safety features gotten really good in the past few decades? I feel like not many people know just how little waste is created with modern recycling and just how safe nuclear is with modern safety features. Seems like we need a positive PR campaign to help convince folks that nuclear is way better than fossil fuels. This could easily be bipartisan.

> Haven't nuclear waste recycling and safety features gotten really good in the past few decades? I thought you were being snarky at first, but the rest of the comment appears to indicate you're being serious. In Belgium we've been stuck in endless discussions regarding what to do with our nuclear waste. We used to dump it in the sea, which was probably a bad idea. Now it's stored in barrels which are apparently leak…

Part of the problem is the difficulty in building new reactors, which means old and outdated reactor designs remain in operation which cannot utilize or recycle nuclear material because our nuclear knowledge at the time was lacking. If your reactor was built in the 70s or 80s, it was probably designed in the 60s which means 60s era nuclear technology, only 20 years after we first discovered nuclear power in the first place.

Its like driving around Model-Ts and then lamenting about how inefficient and unsafe they are. And then using that as evidence on why we shouldn't build modern cars.

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#159
post #146
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All reasonable points, but would you not agree that in the here and now, our first priority should be replacing that coal power station with renewables, and then the gas, then the nuclear?

That's also a bit impossible. There aren't any easy solutions going forward. You want to replace most power station with non-base load renewables (wind + solar). Well, at peak power are going to add more batteries, to make sure your energy doesn't go to waste. Want to add more batteries, oh you'll need more renewable sources keep it net positive during the winter months and probably keep those battery from draining c…

Impossible? Its prioritising.

Theres a significant number of Greens that are against nuclear. And rather than infight about that, I'd rather work on what we all do agree on first.

Once we've decarbonised the grid then we can have the discussion about nuclear.

What I don't want is any other countries doing a Germany and pissing away time and money turning off nuclear reactors whilst still burning coal.

Re: Steep decline in nuclear power would threaten energy security and climate goals

#160
post #103
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could be at the point where solar adoption takes off exponentially. On a big picture view: Tony Seba: Clean Disruption - Energy & Transportation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0 On a more micro level view: Solar power solutions coming to places with no grid: https://medium.com/zolaelectric/infinity-smart-grid-deliveri...

It has taken off exponentially. That’s what the growth curve you’re looking at is called. :)

No, it has not taken off exponentially yet in the way the Tony Seba video demonstrates with a picture of 5th Ave in NYC in the year 1900 where there are lots of horses used for transportation, and only one car, compared with a picture of the same street in 1913, where the street is full of cars, and there is only one horse to be found.
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