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China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

globaltimes.cn

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Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#151

Post by maattdd »

athenot wrote: post #51

The article mentions "designed top speed of 600 km per hour". But then a bit further it mentions "Now the prototype has achieved static levitation and is in good condition" (emphasis mine). That leaves me wondering what was the actual speed reached during testing and what will be the actual operational speed. Don't get me wrong, I still find this project impressive. But there's a fair amount of boasting going on as w…

The French record was with a modified test unit but on a regular track (LGV Est), albeit with upgraded voltage.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#152

Post by def_true_false »

makomk wrote: post #114
anoncake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with it are: - It was split up. For example, the tracks and the rolling stock are owned by different companies. All these companies are owned by a holding and all use the DB brand, but they independently try to make a profit. That makes sense to economists trying to let the market organize as much as possible, but not to railway employees trying to run a railway. For example: before, the Bundesbahn built…

Note that EU rules require Deutsche Bahn and every other European train network to be split up in this way, with all the problems it entails. Germany bent the rules quite a bit over the years to keep the operation of its railways as tightly integrated as it could, but it couldn't last. The European Commission is pretty unhappy about the fact they're even under the same holding company.

As a counterpoint, the Czech Republic has seen a massive improvement in both prices and quality with the forced split and competition with other train companies.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#153

Post by roboys »

rswail wrote: post #101
netcan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I visit London, I'm puzzled by the seeming paradox. That system was dug in the 1800s, when light-bulbs and bicycles were still in beta. Over 150 years later, a project like that is out of reach for nearly all western cities. It's like the "we can't go to the moon anymore." It just offends my/our intuition about progress.

The reason the British Empire flourished is because, well, the British Empire flourished. The industrial revolution began in the UK, the engineering of the time was lead by the British. So yes, London got the tube, it got sewerage, it got all wonders of public facility because it was a win-win. Proclaimed the glory of the Empire to keep others in check and provide the people with the spoils of Empire.

To be fair, robbing indigenous people at gun point is a very profitable endeavor and why Britain flourished.

Fact: There is no chance of Britian reaching its former greatness without this crucial criminal component.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#154

Post by JoeAltmaier »

roboys wrote: post #153
rswail wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the British Empire flourished is because, well, the British Empire flourished. The industrial revolution began in the UK, the engineering of the time was lead by the British. So yes, London got the tube, it got sewerage, it got all wonders of public facility because it was a win-win. Proclaimed the glory of the Empire to keep others in check and provide the people with the spoils of Empire.

To be fair, robbing indigenous people at gun point is a very profitable endeavor and why Britain flourished. Fact: There is no chance of Britian reaching its former greatness without this crucial criminal component.

Fact: that was made up

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#155

Post by anoncake »

def_true_false wrote: post #152
makomk wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that EU rules require Deutsche Bahn and every other European train network to be split up in this way, with all the problems it entails. Germany bent the rules quite a bit over the years to keep the operation of its railways as tightly integrated as it could, but it couldn't last. The European Commission is pretty unhappy about the fact they're even under the same holding company.

As a counterpoint, the Czech Republic has seen a massive improvement in both prices and quality with the forced split and competition with other train companies.

Correlation does not mean causation. It's also possible that splitting and competition improves one railway but would make another worse. Maybe a railway is just organized well enough that splitting is not an improvement. If the timetable gets designed by the director's nephew, something needs to change. But if multiple competing teams produce proposals and the best one gets chosen, you already have the benefits of competing companies without the disadvantages.

Or there may be cultural differences between the railway companies. Maybe one company is staffed by hard workers who are motivated by working at a state-owned railway rather than for some capitalist that isn't them and would be offended if you introduced competition hoping to get them to work harder. The other could be staffed by lazy bums who find working for the state distasteful and do need a kick in the arse.

Forcing a split could also cause other reforms that outweigh the damage the split causes.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#156

Post by roboys »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #154
roboys wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, robbing indigenous people at gun point is a very profitable endeavor and why Britain flourished. Fact: There is no chance of Britian reaching its former greatness without this crucial criminal component.

Fact: that was made up

You may not know the economic history of Britain, if you disagree.

Peak of British economy was after it invaded/sabotaged/drugged/then robbed two of the richest civilizations at that point (accounting for 50% of world GDP) China & India.

The beginning of British decline started in the early 1900s with the end of the opium trade (which at its peak, in ~1895, accounted for 35% of Britain's GDP)

Do you think UK, China, India, US, Germany, etc... placed at the same starting point, would result in UK economic victory without foul play?

UK can't even beat California on many economic metrics after centuries of historical advantages, lol.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#157

Post by vonmoltke »

kuzehanka wrote: post #150
chrismorgan wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by... : it’s actually under 70% of the population in the top 7 cities in that list, with the two giants being Sydney and Melbourne with 20% each. 30% is a fairly large rounding error! :-) I agree with your judgement in general, nonetheless.

That 30% rounding error are people who don't have any interest in travelling to major cities. Giving mobility to those people would unlock new use cases of its own, but the GP post is actually accurate to commercial reality.

Perth doesn't count as a major city? (% of that 30% live within its metro area. This isn't to say the 7-city grid is a bad idea, but your statement is inaccurate.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#158

Post by vonmoltke »

melling wrote: post #117
cantankerous wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's population is concentrated in one part of the country. That makes it easier to serve them more efficiently with mass transit. This isn't true for the United States. The population resides on the coasts, which you can serve with high-speed rail, but connecting the two coasts with the inland population centers via rail is a much, much bigger project.

Yes, this excuse has been given for the past 50 years. Usually, in reference to Europe. That might explain why they’re building 25,000 miles of high-speed rail in China, but it doesn’t address why the US has zero. You’re being sort of vague with the numbers of course. If you actually look at population densities in Spain, for example, and compare them to California or New York, what do you think we’d find? For some r…

People also want the federal government to fund the construction of this infrastructure, which is a very hard sell (and possibly unconstitutional) if you don't average all of those states in some way. Most of the opposition to Amtrak and existing infrastructure projects like the Gateway Project is coming from those states, who don't see improving rail service in the Mid-Atlantic and New England as something they want their tax money spent on.

We need to fix that problem, and that means not simply writing them off as irrelevant because of their lack of population. Australia is likely facing the same problem.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#159

Post by kuzehanka »

vonmoltke wrote: post #157
kuzehanka wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 30% rounding error are people who don't have any interest in travelling to major cities. Giving mobility to those people would unlock new use cases of its own, but the GP post is actually accurate to commercial reality.

Perth doesn't count as a major city? (% of that 30% live within its metro area. This isn't to say the 7-city grid is a bad idea, but your statement is inaccurate.

Perth is number 4 on the above list..?

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#160

Post by gnode »

dmitriid wrote: post #133
gnode wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reacting to things is still important and time critical. You just can't react to anything in sight. Instead the things you can react to are data and camera feeds from far up ahead. What are the other trains doing? Did the next junction switch successfully? I think that raises a question of: what is the point of having a driver on the train? Why not have people in a control room drive the trains, coordinating the syst…

Remote control systems can and will fail.

I don't see why this is an issue. If it fails, the train should stop. The train should be designed such that it only continues on its way if a continuous "okay to proceed" signal is received, gated on automatic safety systems and deliberate human action. Even if you have a driver, the train should still stop if it cannot communicate, because the driver can't determine whether the track ahead is safe.
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