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Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

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Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#151
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US seems to promote free trade for the industries it controls. When it looses to competition it invokes national security, military intervention etc...Trump made clear what was already known. I am a free trade believer but you must be stupid not to see that US doesn't want free trade. It wants free trade where it works for them, their "free trade", in US dollars of course. If you compete with the US you become a foe,…

It's more like, if you don't have steel/oil/planes/guns/CPUs you don't have an army (or more specifically, producers of the above can deny you resources when you need them most, in war).

You could argue the same with anything: food, energy, cars, electronics etc... In time of war everything counts but I thought we are not at war...are we? Is it free trade, fair justice, human rights etc or "national security" and "our interests"?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#152
post #95
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world might be a better place if everyone stole and remixed IP Until it becomes unprofitable to invest in innovation

You may be mistaken about the source of a lot of "deep innovation". I know I was, when I was younger. Here is a nice example that helped shatter some of the myths I myself believed, in this case it was that Silicon Valley was the product of free enterprise: https://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo (Secret History of Silicon Valley - Computer History Museum, Mountain View) In reality capitalism only took over after massive (debt…

Define "deep innovation". Are you saying that private enterprise is only capable of "shallow innovation"?

If so, do you think that the world will do just fine if we removed large financial rewards for "shallow innovation" like the smartphone, new drugs, medical devices, software, etc?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sure and how is that Huawei ended up being banned without due process? Europeans are not sparred either using the Justice Department or a straight out tariff(i.e steel, cars etc) https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ax5hwm/economic_war...

Nobody said it was a perfect system. It can be abused, especially when legal precedents haven't been set, but there are also means to challenge the legitimacy of such decisions.

>> but there are also means to challenge the legitimacy of such decisions.

And how did that work? (i.e for the Iraq invasion/Afganistan).

"international law matters only when it is aligned with US national interests"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/15/mike-pompeo-...

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main leaders of the Leave campaign and someone who highly likely to be the next Prime Minister of the UK literally said: "My policy on cake is pro having it and pro eating it."

Exactly. I actually can't tell if you're trying to raise a point of disagreement?

Apologies, I was trying to emphasise that the "cake" theme was something that literally did feature in Brexit discussions.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#155
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is up to each nation to choose it's form of government. it is not one size fits all

A friend who grew up in Singapore describes it as the capitalist version of North Korea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Friedman has been called many things but inconsistent or unprincipled we’re not among them. Yes they were, for example Friedman said that free market policies enable 'freedom' and socialist ones do lend themselves to authoritarianism, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in almost all places where his vision was put as fully into motion as possible, (70/80s Latin America), it had to be accompanied by severe st…

You’re saying you dislike or hate his principles. I get it. I hate Dick Cheney and Hilary Clinton’s principles but I don’t claim they don’t have them. If someone says “war” they don’t need to hear more, they support it. Noam Chomsky is deeply principled. If someone opposes the US he’ll support them, whether they’re the Khmer Rouge or the Serbs in the Yugoslav Civil War. Lenin was principled. He believed in Communism…

> You’re saying you dislike or hate his principles. I get it.

Actually, I was only commenting on the claim that he didn't receive criticism for his 'principles', when he clearly did. I did not pass any other judgment.

> Noam Chomsky is deeply principled. If someone opposes the US he’ll support them, whether they’re the Khmer Rouge or the Serbs in the Yugoslav Civil War.

Think of Chomsky what you want, but this is a tragically misguided interpretation of his stance. He doesn't want the U.S. meddling in other countries, as the U.S. does not really do it for humanitarian reasons, but for geopolitical and resource exploitative reasons, (I mean just the existence of the term 'colliteral damage', or 'double tap' and the fact that drone strikes kill over 90% civilians should tell you enough). The notion that the U.S. cares about human rights, while being allied with Egypt, KSA etc. shows this clearly.

The U.S. has melted down over stupid Russian Facebook memes, calling it 'meddling', while actively supporting an illegal coup in Venezuela in the same breath.

His point is also that he criticizes the U.S because he's a CITIZEN, while he's not a citizen of all of the other places. So he puts an emphasis on where he lives, because there he has the biggest chance of innacting some change, as opposed to somewhere where he has no say whatsoever. I mean that'll be easy to do, because you don't really threaten anyone in power, but it also means you're doing little more than posturing.

As for my personal belief, I am actually not against markets or whatever. They serve a useful purpose for games, books, smartphones etc. But I do believe that they also serve a catastrophically unethical purpose when applied to healthcare for example, so that put's me squarely in a social democratic camp, but that doesn't really change the fact that MF has seen one extreme, so he went the exact opposite extreme.

And extremes, including free market ones, cannot be innacted peacefully, as has been demonstrated every time his vision was innacted, most notably by the Chicago Boys.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#157

China is highly unlikely to undermine the U.S.-led global system given it has been one of its biggest beneficiaries, Balakrishnan said. They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... and China wants the benefits of selling into that global market, while reserving their own market for themselves. Every day they are…

Free trade is free for whom? Monopolies? Capitalists? If we had the same rules everywhere and effectively one global government then we could have free trade. But we have sovereign nations with their own national interests. Therefore trade always has to be a deal. Either the deal is a good one or it is not. We have had problems before with Japan, for instance they like to grow their own rice rather than just ship in…

What sense does it actually make to do that? The product - rice - can be locally sourced with a lot of human effort gone into the production of it. This keeps people in Japan gainfully employed in agriculture. Japanese consumers also prefer the local product, it is more to their tastes.

Then the Japanese rice producers have nothing to fear from free trade. If Japanese consumers don't want it, there will be little shipments of American rice anyways. This of course ignores any subsidies that may artificially effect the market prices of rice in either Japan or America, but free trade is as much about consumer choice as it is about big business selling it's products.

I live in Canada. We have a supply managed dairy system that's managed by quotas that farmers own. Part of the management of that system is brutally high tarrifs on foreign milk products, including cheese. The farmers have high income support, but Canada also has among the highest milk prices in the world. This effects poor people as well as limits choice. I'm a cheese snob, and while Canada (in particular around Quebec) can make some very delicious cheeses, I'm left paying exorbitant prices for some of the unique cheeses from Wisconsin, France, Switzerland, etc. The result of this protectionism is that, under WTO rules, Canada exports absolutely zero dairy products. Our cheeses don't compete on a fair market leading to stagnant products that compete on tariffs as high as 800%.

Now you may say "great! farmers deserve a good living!" but they're benefiting from protectionism while the rest of the economy is relatively free. If the entire Canadian economy was run on this model, Canadians would have to pay a lot more everything, which would make our standard of living much lower.

Farmers just happen to be politically well connected, which at the end of the day are the people who tend to benefit from "trade deals" that restrict certain elements of trade.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read a macroeconomics textbook written more recently than the 1970’s and it will call the infant industry argument theoretically plausible and reference Krugman’s paper on industry clusters. It will spend far more time on the globally optimal and not strategically effected strategy, free trade. We know protectionism can theoretically work. It can also be a massive failure, like in all of post-colonial South Asia and…

There has been a big push to normalize the idea that "macroeconomists have figured out x and y". However, macroeconomists aren't scientists, and their messes like the Reinhardt-Rogoff affair should make everyone skeptical that they can claim they "know" anything with any degree of certainty. I first encountered this when economists kept attacking rent control saying it destroyed cities, while Montreal remained the be…

There are huge amounts macroeconomists don’t know but if they’re not scientists neither are epidemiologists or nutritionists. Experiments are impossible or necessarily tiny and of low quality in all those fields.

Macroeconomics is not a healthy field making rapid progress. David D. Friedman’s verdict on it is that we know very little is true but we know plenty that isn’t. If you want to see someone really ripping into macro read Paul Romer’s The Trouble With Macroeconomics[1]. All that said I know what happens when you contract the money supply; you get a recession. Print lots of money; you’ll get inflation. Decrease inflation; your currency will appreciate. There’s plenty more like that. Purchasing power parity works as a theory of exchange rate formation over the long run and nothing does over the short run. Macroeconomists know plenty.

Regarding theory and replication, on rent control I see Montreal and raise you Mumbai[2]. If the rent controlled price is near the market price the damage will be pretty mild. If you haven’t allowed rents to rise since the 1960’s things will be worse. On replication, more than three quarters of cancer biology papers don’t replicate so the fact that some economics papers get retracted doesn’t disturb me too greatly[3]. If you’re doing science sometimes you find out you were wrong or that you made a mistake.

[1]https://paulromer.net/the-trouble-with-macro/

[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fh4tPWYeks

https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/2sEX5MD7aW1whVkxFllNCL/Rent...

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/04/tw...

[3]https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/what-pro...

> In 2011, Bayer Healthcare said that its in-house scientists could only validate 25 percent of basic studies in cancer and other conditions. (Drug companies routinely do such checks so they can use the information in those studies as a starting point for developing new drugs.) A year later, Glenn Begley and Lee Ellis from Amgen said that the firm could only confirm the findings in 6 out of 53 landmark cancer papers—just 11 percent. Perhaps, they wrote, that might explain why “our ability to translate cancer research to clinical success has been remarkably low.”

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#159
post #138
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying the people of China have 'chosen not to choose' is bizarre and disingenuous - you are twisting the notion of freedom to imply Chinese people have chosen not to be free. The Chinese people have never in recent memory chosen the Chinese communist party to represent them exclusively.

[flagged]

Xi Jinping has no mandate to rule.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re saying you dislike or hate his principles. I get it. I hate Dick Cheney and Hilary Clinton’s principles but I don’t claim they don’t have them. If someone says “war” they don’t need to hear more, they support it. Noam Chomsky is deeply principled. If someone opposes the US he’ll support them, whether they’re the Khmer Rouge or the Serbs in the Yugoslav Civil War. Lenin was principled. He believed in Communism…

> You’re saying you dislike or hate his principles. I get it. Actually, I was only commenting on the claim that he didn't receive criticism for his 'principles', when he clearly did. I did not pass any other judgment. > Noam Chomsky is deeply principled. If someone opposes the US he’ll support them, whether they’re the Khmer Rouge or the Serbs in the Yugoslav Civil War. Think of Chomsky what you want, but this is a t…

>> You’re saying you dislike or hate his principles. I get it.

> Actually, I was only commenting on the claim that he didn't receive criticism for his 'principles', when he clearly did. I did not pass any other judgment.

If your interpretation of someone’s writing makes no sense try rereading it to see if there’s a sensible interpretation. No one who supports Milton Friedman is going to be unaware he’s widely hated. I said he was principled and consistent and acknowledged to be so. That was wrong. He was principled and consistent and plenty of people disagreed with that truth.

I never said or implied he didn’t receive criticism, anywhere.

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