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Web Programming Is Hard

shubharamani.com

151–160 of 165 posts

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add one thing: get to know HTTP. Even a basic understanding will prevent you from making costly mistakes.

Any recommended resources on getting a good foundation for HTTP?

Chris Shiflett wrote a good HTTP handbook, I recommend his blog too. (typing from phone, pasting url not easy)

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#152
post #138

I am not sure which particular flavor of "embedded" the author is referring to, but the argument, in my view, is completely off the mark, and here is why: The main challenge of embedded is that you are in charge of controlling and managing everything. The developer is closer to the hardware and the cost of things breaking is far higher because you cannot for one second forget about some part of the technology stack t…

You won't get much upvotes as the vast majority of HN readers appear to come from the Web world. And as someone who made the switch from embedded to web,I find web much easier in 90% of the time. Sure its hard to learn CSS, but I want to see you learn how to handle Linux's buffer-heads or program a custom dma chip.

You have a point. Sure, embedded problems can be very tricky and difficult -- much more so than web stuff. But most embedded folks don't solve problems of THAT complexity in their day jobs, just as most web programmers aren't implementing Machine Learning code during their day jobs. The embedded problems you're discussing are usually tackled by the elite, or by highly specialized Linux kernel types -- and no, I'm not elite. Many employed embedded people, believe it or not, have never worked with DMA.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#153
post #59

Web Programming is nigh impossible for 1 person any more. To build a legit website: 1. Mockup a pretty design in photoshop. Use color theory, design principles, UX theory, typography skills, etc. 2. Convert the design into HTML/CSS. Make it degrade gracefully, it should be cross-browser compatible, validate, be lightweight, meet accessibility standards. 3. Add unobstrusive javascript if you want, site should work wit…

With all due respect, putting OWASP at the end is a big mistake, you may have to refactor a lot to secure your code.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#154

I am not sure which particular flavor of "embedded" the author is referring to, but the argument, in my view, is completely off the mark, and here is why: The main challenge of embedded is that you are in charge of controlling and managing everything. The developer is closer to the hardware and the cost of things breaking is far higher because you cannot for one second forget about some part of the technology stack t…

No doubt, your embedded world presents incredibly difficult problems -- arguably much trickier ones than most web jobs out there. Keep in mind, as the OP and author, I'm comparing the "average" embedded job or desktop software job to the "average" web job. Perhaps I should have made this distinction clearer in the blog article. Most employed embedded engineers do not work on problems as tough as the ones which you describe.

But to me, the biggest challenge with web is the unforgiving avalanche of emerging new technologies a practicing professional must keep abreast of, literally during every spare second of their life, if he or she is to remain employed !! This unrelenting blizzard of new algorithms, new languages, new frameworks, new design methodologies is just another typical day in the life of a highly competent and employable web engineer.

The resource-limited embedded problems at your company are "old school". I'm not saying they're easy, but do the tools and technologies needed to solve such problems change much through the years ?

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#155
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm considering doing the exact opposite (10 years web/server-side development - switching to embedded). Currently, I'm taking some extension engineering classes at UC Irvine while still working full-time. Any ideas on where to start to get my foot in the door in the embedded world? I was thinking newbie kernel bugs and eventually Linux drivers.

The linux drivers idea is good particularly if you want to learn about communication with embedded system. But there are other approaches too. You'll need to ask yourself how low-level do you want to go. For example: Do you want to work on a system that has an OS, utilities, filesystem, etc such as the ELDK[1]? Or a little more stripped down with only the OS such as FreeRTOS[2], uClinux[3], or uC/OS[4]? Or even lower…

what kind of a career path does a embedded programmer has? what is expected at senior positions in such jobs?

how to get a foot into a entry level job? I am not a EE guy. doing a BSCS.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#156
post #149
post #2

I periodically think "Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could stick these two APIs together." In my more sensible moments, I remember that that idiot only needed to know HTML, CSS, the DOM model, Javascript, jQuery, HTTP (mostly headers and status codes), Ruby, Rails, basic MVC design, Oauth, SQL, SQL performance, five-ish APIs to support the two that needed integration, how to configure and…

You forgot the architecture needed to sustain a development enviornment - the VCS, bug tracking, deployment (ssh? shell scripts? something more modern?), and so on. But that's probably because it's all so obvious.

I've always been a hobby programmer, but over the last few months I've been developing some web sites and trying to bring my skills up 'to the next level'. The things you mentioned- vcs, bug tracking, deployment- are definitely non trivial. Partly because while most programming languages are well documented and have lots of tutorials, the things you mention are almost a black art, something every programmer does a bit differently (I think) and rolls their own scripts.

For example- there is a php project I want to contribute to with bug fixes. I can fix the bugs no problem, but submitting a patch & using the bug tracking system? Way beyond me!

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#157
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comparison was with embedded programming, which can be pretty hard in its own right. Also, with lots of embedded stuff, you don't get the "do over" of being able to update your server with the latest code. Once it has shipped, it had better work. In some cases, people's lives may directly depend on it, something that's probably fairly rare in the world of web programming. I'd hire someone good with C pret…

Embedded is very challenging. But the tools don't change much through the years. With the web, stuff keeps a changin'- like minute by minute.

That's a very simplistic and inaccurate statement.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#159
When people complain to me about so and so technology related I tell them to relax, breath and consider the millions of things that need to go right in order for you to watch the latest Lady Gaga video on youtube.

I am constantly reminded of this by Louis CK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#160
post #2

I periodically think "Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could stick these two APIs together." In my more sensible moments, I remember that that idiot only needed to know HTML, CSS, the DOM model, Javascript, jQuery, HTTP (mostly headers and status codes), Ruby, Rails, basic MVC design, Oauth, SQL, SQL performance, five-ish APIs to support the two that needed integration, how to configure and…

It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys. What I wonder is: Does the following sentence run through the head of every expert in every field? Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could [do X]. It certainly felt true of most of my day-to-day work in graduate semiconductor electronics. It felt true of a lot of biology research. My conclusion is that there are a mere handful of d…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-kruger_effect

This is the Dunning-Kruger effect, is it not?

One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.

-Bertrand Russell

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